'Microsoft Has Lost Trust With Its Users and Windows Recall is the Straw That Broke the Camel's Back' - Slashdot

'Microsoft Has Lost Trust With Its Users and Windows Recall is the Straw That Broke the Camel's Back' - Slashdot
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In a column at Windows Central, a blog that focuses on Microsoft news, senior editor Zac Bowden
discusses the backlash against Windows Recall
, a
new AI feature in Microsoft's Copilot+ PCs
. While the feature is impressive, allowing users to search their entire Windows history, many are concerned about privacy and security. Bowden argues that Microsoft's history of questionable practices, such as ads and bloatware, has eroded user trust, making people skeptical of Recall's intentions. Additionally, the reported lack of encryption for Recall's data raises concerns about third-party access. Bowden argues that Microsoft could have averted the situation by testing the feature openly to address these issues early on and build trust with users. He adds:
Users are describing the feature as literal spyware or malware, and droves of people are proclaiming they will proudly switch to Linux or Mac in the wake of it. Microsoft simply doesn't enjoy the same benefit of the doubt that other tech giants like Apple may have.
Had Apple announced a feature like Recall, there would have been much less backlash, as Apple has done a great job building loyalty and trust with its users, prioritizing polished software experiences, and positioning privacy as a high-level concern for the company.
Related Links
SpaceX Soars Through New Milestones in Test Flight of the Most Powerful Rocket Ever Built
With Recall, Microsoft is Using AI To Fix Windows' Eternally Broken Search
Google Is Working On a Recall-Like Feature For Chromebooks, Too
Microsoft Postpones Windows Recall After Major Backlash
'TotalRecall Reloaded' Tool Finds a Side Entrance To Windows 11 Recall Database
Intel Ditches Hyperthreading For Lunar Lake CPUs
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'Microsoft Has Lost Trust With Its Users and Windows Recall is the Straw That Broke the Camel's Back'
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'Microsoft Has Lost Trust With Its Users and Windows Recall is the Straw That Broke the Camel's Back'
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Well, why should this one be the straw?
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, Insightful)
by
Casandro
( 751346 )
writes:
on Thursday June 06, 2024 @12:53PM (
#64527953
I mean at least since 1995 when Microsoft introduced MSN by default with their Windows product, they sent a whole directory listing of c:\ to their server.
I would say that since then, they have shed all users who care about "trust" in an operating system. The only ones left are people who don't care, people who are forced to use Windows by others, and people who use Windows for special purposes.
Microsoft has shown blatant disrespect for the interests of their users for decades now, why should this incident be special in any way?
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Re:
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by
slaker
( 53818 )
writes:
It wasn't Windows 95, but Windows 98 did have at least some associated telemetry. As I recall there was a list of specific applications it was checking to see if your PC had installed, plus some other details about your hardware. It made national news for a day several months after Windows 98 was released.
I'm sure it's nothing compared to what Microsoft gets from desktop OS telemetry nowadays.
Chicken little nonsense
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, Insightful)
by
irreverentdiscourse
( 1922968 )
writes:
on Thursday June 06, 2024 @12:53PM (
#64527955
Absolutely no one of importance will switch to Mac or Linux because of this feature that can be disabled.
Share
Re:Chicken little nonsense
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, Insightful)
by
UnknowingFool
( 672806 )
writes:
on Thursday June 06, 2024 @01:00PM (
#64527997
It can be disabled as of now. Microsoft may alter the deal and you should pray they do not alter it further.
Parent
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by
christoban
( 3028573 )
writes:
It's opt in for now, you have to download it. But they will change that. Trillions of dollars guarantee it.
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by
AmiMoJo
( 196126 )
writes:
If Microsoft was capable of making things like this impossible to disable, they would have already done so for stuff like telemetry.
In any case it will require the mother of all GDPR agreements with the user, and coercing or forcing "agreement" isn't allowed, so at least in Europe they will have to offer an off switch.
And probably everywhere else too, if they want to maintain those lucrative government contracts and businesses who don't want their secrets leaking out.
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gweihir
( 88907 )
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Actually, I highly doubt they can legally even get a GDPR agreement from a private customer, and in many countries from a corporate customer, that would cover this. For example, in many countries spying on the user of a computer is illegal, period and users cannot actually agree in any form that would make it legal.
Incidentally, in Europe, this has to be "off" by default.
Re:Chicken little nonsense
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, Informative)
by
HiThere
( 15173 )
writes:
charleshixsn@@@earthlink...net
on Thursday June 06, 2024 @01:23PM (
#64528115
Microsoft has a history of re-enabling disabled features via a system update. And doing so silently, so you're likely not to notice.
Parent
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Re:Chicken little nonsense
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, Informative)
by
jd
( 1658 )
writes:
imipak@yaho[ ]om ['o.c' in gap]
on Thursday June 06, 2024 @01:27PM (
#64528129
Homepage
Journal
Up until Windows 3.11, you could use any version of DOS as the underlying system.
You used to be able to completely uninstall the Web browser.
You used to be able to switch Windows into using a NeXTStep-style desktop.
You used to be able to do a lot of things that mysteriously got disabled, making Microsoft's vision the One True Experience.
No. Experience shows that those who rely on a capability WILL be burned.
Parent
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by
Seven Spirals
( 4924941 )
writes:
You are totally right and your list is very abbreviated. However, MS users have Stockholm Syndrome and after watching them for 30 years I conclude that nothing, no matter what, can convince them to get off Windows or Outlook/Office. You could threaten their mother, spouses, or crucify their children in the front yard. Nothing will change, no matter what, not ever. Period.
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slaker
( 53818 )
writes:
There are certain applications for which users have the choice of Windows or in some cases MacOS. These applications for one reason or another do not run under WINE and likewise do not have comparable work-alikes on *nix platforms.
I am very happy that DaVinci Resolve Studio largely works perfectly on Linux (other than some adventures in native sound codecs). There is no comparable application to either Photoshop or Lightroom Classic, especially if you appreciate the AI tools in the most up to date versions.
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by
dargaud
( 518470 )
writes:
The threat of having to fix their computers by themselves did it for me. In mid 2000s I was doing IT for the extended family and got so sick of cleaning viruses I put up a condition: switch to Linux. About 3/4 accepted, those who didn't switched to Mac. And I can now remote admin everything and nobody has complained since.
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christoban
( 3028573 )
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Programmers and IT folk will, and we're the only ones who matter.
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by
nightflameauto
( 6607976 )
writes:
Absolutely no one of importance will switch to Mac or Linux because of this feature that can be disabled.
Knowing Microsoft, the "disable" switch only shuts down your ability to search the history, but it'll still take those snapshots of the screen every five seconds. Because resources are infinite, when you're trying to aggregate data for hoovering by the AIs.
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hughJ
( 1343331 )
writes:
From MS's perspective I could see the argument for doing it that way too. Even if you turn off the feature or don't even have compatible hardware, that may change one day and they want the feature to be fully functional with an already populated history to provide the best first impression of the feature. Activating a feature you have misgivings (or ignorance) about that can't actually do anything for you right away is a recipe for never turning it on to begin with.
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by
slaker
( 53818 )
writes:
Microsoft wants a decent chunk of storage on your primary drive to use to store this info, something that is not an infinite resource, and something that a lot of people would turn off, just seeing a big chunk of storage that is suddenly useless; a lot of gamers turn off System Restore and Hibernate functions in Windows for exactly the same reason, and plenty of IT managers would ALSO rather not devote 150GB to every PC fleetwide for this to exist.
There's no reason to assume this is malice. Windows makes it
I fail to see a real use case for Recall
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by
UnknowingFool
( 672806 )
writes:
on Thursday June 06, 2024 @12:55PM (
#64527969
Microsoft has touted Recall as a feature for users to go back and see what they have done previously. I think if MS is serious about this feature, they have confused "what users want to see" vs "what users want to know". However it does it in the most inefficient way by showing what the screen was at the time. That has limited use. If a user wanted to know what files they worked on two weeks ago, I think currently they can search for files modified within the last two weeks. If they want to know which websites they visited, they can check the browser history.
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by
fahrbot-bot
( 874524 )
writes:
Microsoft has touted Recall as a feature for users to go back and see what they have done previously. I think if MS is serious about this feature, they have confused "what users want to see" vs "what users want to know". However it does it in the most inefficient way by showing what the screen was at the time. That has limited use. If a user wanted to know what files they worked on two weeks ago, I think currently they can search for files modified within the last two weeks. If they want to know which websites they visited, they can check the browser history.
I think I read that "local AI" will process the screenshots to determine what you were doing and save that analysis in a local database. In either case, I can't really see this being useful to anyone in a personal-use situation. Certainly not enough to require screenshots every few seconds. The other methods you mentioned seem more useful. In a business situation however, Recall could be useful to snoop on your employees in real time.
Personally, I think this is just the next step for MS in telemetry
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by
UnknowingFool
( 672806 )
writes:
It would seem to me that snapshotting code with versioning in an IDE would be less intrusive. Also any code has to be visually inspected as a screenshot cannot be visually searched.
Re: I fail to see a real use case for Recall
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by
drinkypoo
( 153816 )
writes:
"Recall isn't exporting any data to MS at all.... and that's easy to (and already has been) validate. It's all machine-local only."
It's easy to validate that the data both is not now and will never be sent home during don'ti other operation like updates you can't permanently disable? How do you plan to do that?
"If you actually could understand and read english"
Oh, OK mister "already has been validate".
Right sure; this time its differnt, LOL
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, Insightful)
by
DarkOx
( 621550 )
writes:
on Thursday June 06, 2024 @12:57PM (
#64527979
Journal
Microsoft has been introducing various intrusive measures going back at least as far "Windows Activation" on XP/2003 and every time we get a lot nerds swearing they will never install Windows again and bunch of Tech press saying "People won't stand for it"
You know what happens next, consumers go to BestBuy/Walmart/wherever and get a new PCs they come with Windows they keep running Windows because people look the install instructions for Ubuntu and no matter how stupid simple it is it will still take longer than 5min so they decide its faster to bend over and grab their ankles for Microsoft once more time; or they find out their get 5fps fewer in the last game for lack of optimized drivers and make the same call.
The corporate and education worlds work the same, there is no certainly Outlook will run and certainty that the entire IT org will come crashing down if they had to do without Group Policy or their favorite Windows only MDM/EDR tools and the conversation turns to rationalizing how Microsoft's demands don't violate corporate legal and data leak policies rather than switching.
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by
christoban
( 3028573 )
writes:
The problem with Linux distros is the fragmentation. Not how fast the install is. Fragmentation means software developers don't have a fixed, easy target, and deployment is too hard. But maybe one can get enough market share to provide a fixed target the rest can standardize on, at least.
Or they can just get off their asses and make some standards now instead of pretending everyone's grandmother wants a different, equally shitty window manager.
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by
HBI
( 10338492 )
writes:
So this magical Linux distro that we would standardize on would solve all the issues, right?
You mean like RHEL? Where systemd with its binary log files, Gnome 3 and a whole bunch of other stuff no one really wants get shoved down your throat. I don't see how that is any better than Microsoft doing the same.
If you are unwilling to administer your own computer (aka your grandmother's window manager switches), you're going to be taken advantage of by your OS vendor. That's the bottom line. Whether it is Mi
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by
pi_rules
( 123171 )
writes:
The snap system actually does a nice job of this. Handy way to install closed source apps that just use a single image across everything.
They're kinda bloated, like a macOS app, but it works.
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christoban
( 3028573 )
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Unless your distro uses FlatPak. Or neither.
Re:
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christoban
( 3028573 )
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:D Before, they had DEB and RPM, now they have DEB, RPM, Flatpak, AppImage, Snap, all supported on different distros, religiously.
Re:
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by
mjwx
( 966435 )
writes:
Microsoft has been introducing various intrusive measures going back at least as far "Windows Activation" on XP/2003 and every time we get a lot nerds swearing they will never install Windows again and bunch of Tech press saying "People won't stand for it"
Yah, we don't care about walmart... However a lot of noise is being made about this and that is a good thing as it means lawmakers may actually take note.... I mean lawmakers over this side of the pond where they'll actually take a company like Microsoft to task for egregious breaches of privacy.
Solution looking for a problem
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, Insightful)
by
Varenthos
( 4164987 )
writes:
on Thursday June 06, 2024 @01:06PM (
#64528027
I can't think of any reason I'd need or want this feature. What I
can
see happening, is a year or two down the line, Microsoft deciding to "anonymously" collect "certain" data about how you use your computer and selling it to advertisers. Or them just doing targeted ads themselves.
I can also see that data being a huge target for attackers to try to get. Malware will start packaging up that data and sending it back to the authors. Absolute disaster waiting to happen. I'll pass.
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by
Baron_Yam
( 643147 )
writes:
My office is already talking about taking people with disabling it and ensuring it stays disabled after every patch.
Microsoft has earned a bad reputation for things like this.
Apparently not bad enough to try Linux...
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account_deleted
( 4530225 )
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Comment removed based on user account deletion
I'm buying an ARM PC just for Recall
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by
hunterKSC
( 6346406 )
writes:
Windows Recall is literally the reason i'm buying my first ARM computer, so I *can* have this functionality (and test/build my code on ARM).
Having the ability to pull up and correlate which systems documentation I had open while a specific source file in VS was open will be invaluable to me.
That being said, the code i'm working on....... is primarily deployed on SPARC/Solaris systems. So it's a double whammy when you think about that for me to actually want this feature. I've tried to implement similar befo
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by
ArchieBunker
( 132337 )
writes:
That sounds like something you could solve with comments in the code. Reference number xx page number xx.
I really want to use Linux
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by
xack
( 5304745 )
writes:
on Thursday June 06, 2024 @01:11PM (
#64528061
I've been trying it off an on since 2001, but I still get lock ups in the latest Fedora, while Windows 11 is rock sold. I don't know if its my gpu or Wayland or my amd cpu that Linux doesn't like, but at least Windows is doing a lot of stability testing despite the Windows marketing team being pieces of shit. Microsoft will wether this storm, take the fines from the EU and things will be back to business as usual for Microsoft. They are still the $3 trillion dollar company for a reason despite all the hype from Nvidia traders, Microsoft actually earned their market cap.
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by
legojenn
( 462946 )
writes:
I've mostly used Linux in headless devices as a NAS, torrent thing or a web dev server etc since 1999 though it tapered off considerably after I finished college. I'm on disability for the time being and back between Christmas and New Year's I took the SSD out of my laptop and installed Mint on a new SSD. I was a a Slackware user, so Mint was dead easy to use. I don't miss Windows and the reconfiguring and registry edits that I had to make to make it usable was annoying. It was especially annoying that ads
Re:
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by
i.r.id10t
( 595143 )
writes:
And if like me you end up needing to interact with Office etc for work stuff then the web version works fine for Mail, Calendar, Teams and basic Office stuff (I don't do much if anything with Word/Excel/etc but I would presume they work as well as the other apps)
Feature is needed for big corpos...
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by
Lavandera
( 7308312 )
writes:
This is the feature needed for PHBs to feel they have control over employees
...
Any mistake on employee side could be used to force them to go back to office...
AI could be used to analyze how much the employee "worked"
Nope
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by
christoban
( 3028573 )
writes:
on Thursday June 06, 2024 @01:25PM (
#64528123
No, testing it publicly would have done nothing to "assuage fears."
1. That would not have prevented a single judge or law enforcement officer from gaining access.
2. Future exploits can't be predicted, and current ones can't be remotely tested for in a useful way.
3. Given the importance of AI, this is clearly testing the waters for future inclusion in Windows main. No one, even past Microsoft advocates like me trust them not to do that. It will happen; there's trillions of dollars in it! It's time for Open Source and Free Software.
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Recall will data mine your work to train A.I. to r
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, Insightful)
by
JakFrost
( 139885 )
writes:
on Thursday June 06, 2024 @01:32PM (
#64528153
I made the same Post in the previous thread yesterday. But everybody is looking at the Recall feature as some kind of a security or privacy issue or some way of selling the data to advertisers .
I think you guys are missing the forest for the trees because of the partnerships that Microsoft have signed with Open AI which is hungry for new data and use it for training their AI systems.
Think about it. Microsoft right now has co-pilot and open AI has ChatGPT but if you collect all of the Recall data for every single person using Microsoft Windows across tens of thousands of corporations and millions of users, which includes screenshots every 5 seconds and all the GDI text data from all of the widgets then you are able to use this massive trove of data to teach AI what is it that you do on your computer and what work do you perform on your computer.
If you feed it enough data across enough people, the AI will learn and will collate all this data to duplicate the work that you've been doing on your computer. You're training a SkyNet for work product.
I have a feeling the next products that will be released by Microsoft will be similar to the Automaton Turk that will be able to do the same work that you've done on your computer since you were the one teaching AI to do the same work that you've been doing after it harvests everything you've done in your computer using the recall feature.
These screenshots will definitely be used to train AI to replace you as a worker and for Microsoft to sell a product to users and corporations to duplicate the work that you've been doing.
Think about it if you look at somebody doing the work and you memorize what they're doing every 5 seconds and then you learn from it over. Soon enough you'll be able to replicate the work that they are doing. If you take the information from that one person and collate it with all of the information from tens of thousands of other people doing similar work then you made a AI training University with College specialization school for all different tasks, like coding, graphics design, text writing, etc.
The AI will learn and it'll be able to duplicate what you've been doing. You are basically teaching it as an apprentice would look over a shoulder of a master at work while it takes screenshot and GDI data from you every 5 seconds.
You will teach the AI to be your replacement with this feature! You're teaching SkyNet to replace human input on that operating system.
Microsoft is giving away their operating system almost for free since you can buy license keys for pennies and the dollar on the web from third party vendors and they never crack down on those. The data that they have on you and the telemetry that they collect is more valuable to them to train the new generation of AI to replace you than anything else that you do on their operating system.
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Re:
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by
Pinky's Brain
( 1158667 )
writes:
They will do this in contravention of their obligations, they will even do it in the EU where they aren't just breaking a contract but criminal law as well I assume?
Re:
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aRTeeNLCH
( 6256058 )
writes:
I think you got something there. Aside such data being used right away, it could also be that in a next step, Microsoft offers to have copilot analyze the data on your system at your request to learn how you work, to be able to assist your activities. Obviously, they'd insist all data stays local. And I can see how companies would like to have their employees' productivity go up. And even the workers may benefit and like it, since instead of doing the work, they may just have to oversee copilot doing their
The reason people use microsoft
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by
wakeboarder
( 2695839 )
writes:
is because they don't want to get locked into apple, they are expensive and hippocritical when it comes to privacy (they spy and serve ads to you). At least with microsoft, you can turn the dials and get what you want, they'll let you do it also and you have control over services, registry ect. But these people are too lazy or stupid to install linux, for linux to gain traction, they need to offer more support and support more devices. Ubuntu has gone a long way, but there is no polish on it (UI things that
It's true
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by
Opportunist
( 166417 )
writes:
on Thursday June 06, 2024 @01:53PM (
#64528223
The first two things going through most people's mind when MS announces a new feature is "how are they gonna shaft/bug/annoy me this time?" and "is there a way to turn it off and if, how?"
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And the hype train rolls along
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by
MpVpRb
( 1423381 )
writes:
on Thursday June 06, 2024 @01:57PM (
#64528233
I am optimistic that AI will eventually be very useful, but I also expect a tsunami of half-baked crapware to be released so that companies can brag to their investors that they are leading in AI
Share
It must be exhausting
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by
Kwirl
( 877607 )
writes:
kwirlkarphys@gmail.com
on Thursday June 06, 2024 @01:59PM (
#64528245
to spend so much time hating on a product just because so many people use it. Please, tell me how you think Windows users are going to suddenly abandon a familiar ecosystem after decades of use for an open source platform that realistically isn't designed for everyday use. I'll believe it when it happens and nothing any outlet says is going to convince me otherwise after 30+ years of crying wolf.
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Rick Schumann
( 4662797 )
writes:
Oh, they won't abandon it, the same way that drug addicts don't just cold-turkey abandon their drug of choice. But the more intelligent, computer-literate people will think twice about this. The sad part is that Windows has always and always will be marketed towards people who do not understand computers and don't really want to understand computers, either, and those people will be stuck because they can't handle migrating to linux, and likely can't afford ditching what they have and buying Apple products
The intention is very clear to me:
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by
Rick Schumann
( 4662797 )
writes:
All your data are belong to Microsoft
Pardon me
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by
Artem S. Tashkinov
( 764309 )
writes:
on Thursday June 06, 2024 @02:10PM (
#64528277
Homepage
Do we already have a Windows alternative? No, Linux and MacOS are not it. So, what's all the fuss about? No, people will not start abandoning Windows en masse because of this feature. They didn't do it when Microsoft released horrible Windows Vista, they didn't do that for Windows 8 either, Windows 11 has been panned by many for its new HW requirements (TPM + Secure Boot + modern enough CPU) and people still choose Windows.
I'm sorry to break it to the editor but most people don't even know what's underneath Windows or how it works, nor they are obsessed with witch hunting.
And Microsoft is not so stupid as to start siphoning off private data from its customers' PCs and storing it indefinitely. That's a recipe for disaster. I can suspect they may at most process it and delete it. And that's it. And even that it's not certain.
Considering a new found push by Microsofot for strong
local
AI capabilities (all the conversations about TOPs in new mobile Zen 5/Lunar Lake/Snapdragon Elite X chips), it feels to me Microsoft will still process most if not all the stuff locally.
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Re:
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by
Artem S. Tashkinov
( 764309 )
writes:
Fewer people have been using PCs lately
in general
, that's true. That has nothing to do with Microsoft or "bad" Windows reputation.
Smartphones and tablets have become fast enough, they replaced PCs for many people, along with with zero maintenance cost. On smartphones people don't have to deal with driver updates, malware, crashes, etc.
Recall is next the step in telemetry.
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by
fahrbot-bot
( 874524 )
writes:
I'm guessing that this Recall "feature" is the start of the next step in MS/Windows telemetry gathering. Rather than having to build it into apps and the OS, they'll simply use the screenshots collected every few seconds (wow) and have them analyzed by the "local AI process" to see what you're doing. All that info stored in a local database will be then be pushed/pulled upstream. It may be optional and/or can be disable *now* -- while they work out the kinks -- but it won't be at some point.
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by
Schoenlepel
( 1751646 )
writes:
It's only a question of time before the various governments start to then demand access to this treasure trove of data under the guise of looking for pedophiles, terrorists, and other criminals...
...but in the meanwhile inconvenient journalists and activists will get mysterious visits (or worse) by law enforcement.
Who's privacy? Mine? Microsoft's Apple's?
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by
laxr5rs
( 2658895 )
writes:
on Thursday June 06, 2024 @02:22PM (
#64528339
Who's privacy are we talking about. The users idea of privacy? Or a corporations ideas about privacy that are vetted by lawyers, which figure out - what a company can get away with? That's not privacy - that's legality. Something isn't private - because it follows the law, it's private when the users feel and think it's private, based on evidence, and their apprehension about it. Just ask users, they'll tell you what privacy means - to them. They won't say, "whatever the law allows."
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Only Slashdot cares
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by
mschuyler
( 197441 )
writes:
Your average user neither knows, will know, or cares about this issue. In fact, it's not an issue at all. It's just some geeks who have found something to argue about that is of no consequence to the broader user base.
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by
pi_rules
( 123171 )
writes:
Most of the chatter I see on this, outside Slashdot, has people freaking out about an NPU being in their next computer.
Clearly not dorks, but they don't like it.
So I often find myself explaining than an NPU just does different math than a CPU.
What is this anyway?
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by
blugalf
( 7063499 )
writes:
Something like an always-on screen recorder that compresses the video, plus all files you handle, all clicks you do, and everything you type, into semantic information using "AI" algorithms, then live uploads this summary data stream to 'the cloud', i.e. to Microsoft?
That doesn't sound so bad. I can't wait until there's a free Linux alternative.
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pi_rules
( 123171 )
writes:
Only one mistake. It doesn't upload it to the cloud. It's all stored locally unencrypted.
Not sure which design is worse, honestly. At least if they stuck it in the cloud I'd assume encryption at transport and at rest.
Another MS data grab
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by
J. L. Tympanum
( 39265 )
writes:
This feature is not for your benefit. It is for the benefit of M$. It provides them with an almost unlimited supply of data for whatever purpose they may want to use it for. The Windows EULA says that you have agreed to allow them to do this.
Flawed premise
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by
PalmPreFan
( 8220244 )
writes:
The premise of the piece is that if this came from Apple or another company with "more trust" then we would just accept it but that's not even remotely true. I'm old enough to remember literally last year when they wanted to scan images and photos on your device and the uproar was so massive they had to cancel and pull the plug.
[wired.com]
Microsoft sh*t the bed on this one
Score:
, Interesting)
by
spaglia
( 1163639 )
writes:
on Thursday June 06, 2024 @02:34PM (
#64528403
I can't see anything positive about this "feature" that isn't hugely outweighed by security and privacy concerns. This is the literal definition of spyware. The fact that Microsoft would even consider this is mind boggling.
Share
My question
Score:
, Informative)
by
PPH
( 736903 )
writes:
on Thursday June 06, 2024 @02:38PM (
#64528417
Who asked for this in the first place?
There exist some pretty handy utilities for taking screen shots or recording entire sessions. Invoked by the user when they need a record of what they did. And a need to replay it. Are those not good enough?
Share
Re:
Score:
by
ArchieBunker
( 132337 )
writes:
The MBAs realized there was money to be made. This is how modern business operates. You might recall Red Lobster going bankrupt and people blaming their all you can eat shrimp promotion. What happened was an investment firm bought the company and then sold the property each restaurant was on. Now each restaurant has to lease their previously owned land. The suits cashed out and destroyed the company.
Forgive me for paraphrasing the Matrix,
Score:
by
jddj
( 1085169 )
writes:
But "there is no straw".
Nor has there ever been any deep level of trust of Microsoft from any user that's not the Windows equivalent of a Mac fanboi.
Testing in the open
Score:
by
JThundley
( 631154 )
writes:
Bowden argues that Microsoft could have averted the situation by testing the feature openly to address these issues early on and build trust with users.
Not that I want to defend Microsoft, but isn't that exactly what they're doing? Isn't this in some preview/beta version of Windows 11 and they're announcing it and what it does before it gets pushed to everyone?
I want to say that Microsoft doesn't care about home users anymore for many reasons, but this isn't it. This is a new feature that could be useful to
Law Enforcement
Score:
, Insightful)
by
nehumanuscrede
( 624750 )
writes:
on Thursday June 06, 2024 @05:12PM (
#64528861
You can bet that Law Enforcement / Intelligence Agencies are absolutely drooling over this " feature ".
Who needs to backdoor crypto / security when you can have the cleartext screenshotted every five seconds and stored in an encrypted folder that the user likely won't be able to remove ?
This is pretty much the final nail in the coffin for me using the Windows OS. I have it on a second system ( Win 10 Pro for Workstations ) for the software I use that does not work outside of the Windows environment, but that's it. My main internet machine is already a Linux box. This silly bullshit will be the final push I need to rid myself of Windows forever.
:|
Share
everyone can gripe
Score:
by
luther349
( 645380 )
writes:
i hear alot of complaning but not a mass uninstall of the os.
Droves?
Score:
by
LostMyBeaver
( 1226054 )
writes:
The wording of the entire article is fanatical. It's nearly as bad as a Stallman rant
LOL
Score:
by
thegarbz
( 1787294 )
writes:
Sorry but the "users" (the billion people out there) fall into two categories generally: 1. Don't know. 2. Don't care. Microsoft has lost the trust of a few power users... apparently over a feature none of them have access to. And the absurdity of this article is that these people never trusted Microsoft in the first place.
talk is cheap
Score:
by
nicubunu
( 242346 )
writes:
Every single time Microsoft is doing something nasty (and that happen often), "droves of people are proclaiming they will proudly switch to Linux or Mac" but then they don't, make an excuse and continue using Windows. Talk is cheap and Microsoft knows it.
Re:
Score:
by
JoeRobe
( 207552 )
writes:
My thoughts exactly. I see no reason why I would trust Apple more than MS at this point, but both companies are orders of magnitude more trustworthy that ones embedded in social media and search.
Re:
Score:
by
Compaq Disk Rereader
( 10425332 )
writes:
All my trust in Apple is related to their announcement that they're improving iPhone privacy.
I didn't pay it much heed until it was decried (basically endorsed) by Facebook and Google.
The best was "Privacy is not a luxury good!" statement Googs made to the press.
Despite being meaningless it sounds really good and I can tell they worked hard coming up with it.
I dunno maybe Apple spies on me all day but I've never heard such a strong reaction from the spyware economy.
Re:the weird thing is
Score:
by
retchdog
( 1319261 )
writes:
on Thursday June 06, 2024 @01:06PM (
#64528039
Journal
How is it meaningless?
It clearly states Google's ambitions: that
no one
should be able to avoid their ubiquitous internet ad platform, at any price.
Parent
Share
Re:
Score:
, Interesting)
by
Compaq Disk Rereader
( 10425332 )
writes:
Lol true that.
It meant enough that I own an iPhone and while I doubt it's as private as my old completely de-googled androids I don't spend a week fucking around with it or have to explain to people that I only use FOSS apps available from the f-droid marketplace so I can't simply install their app and use it to unlock the door to their airbnb and it's like 10 degrees outside please hurry and open the door I'm tired.
Never thought I'd have an iphone but I don't regret much about it.
Re:
Score:
by
slaker
( 53818 )
writes:
I can't justify an OS that thinks I'm a moron, and that is 100% what I see from iOS. End users still can't see all their own files on their own device, and that makes the entire platform unacceptable to me. Apple might be better for privacy but it's also anti-consumer, with all of the tools it uses to try to keep people within its ecosystem.
It is possible, even with the newest Galaxy S24, to set up without either Google or Samsung accounts. Run an ad-blocking DNS, don't talk to Facebook or Amazon and you pr
If this had been actual capitalism...
Score:
by
shanen
( 462549 )
writes:
I think the FP Subject was a natural recipe for "meaningless" discussion. Not disappointing for "I wanted to be disappointed" values of Slashdot in recent years. No wonder I missed Slashdot so little during my hiatus.
The amusing theory of "capitalism" was supposed to be something about all the little consumers freely choosing what they wanted and the entire system would be optimized as the freely competing companies tried to provide what different people wanted. No relation to what is going on in today's wo
Re:
Score:
by
jenningsthecat
( 1525947 )
writes:
No wonder I missed Slashdot so little during my hiatus.
Welcome back. I'm glad you didn't miss it enough for it to stop you from checking in again.
Re:
Score:
by
retchdog
( 1319261 )
writes:
hey aren't you that guy who was excited about getting free bitcoin from whatever kooky scheme Texas had come up with? how's that going for ya?
Re:the weird thing is
Score:
, Informative)
by
xeoron
( 639412 )
writes:
on Thursday June 06, 2024 @03:17PM (
#64528515
Homepage
That data from this feature is stored in blank text in a sqlite DB. Anything sensitive it will capture and store copies of. The red team is going to have a field day with such a store of data.
Parent
Share
Re:
Score:
by
strikethree
( 811449 )
writes:
That data from this feature is stored in blank text
If that is the case, why is anyone worried? It sounds like it is saving the data to
/dev/null. Plain text maybe?
;)
Re:
Score:
by
gweihir
( 88907 )
writes:
My take is that Apple users would probably trust Apple more, but the average user would not. All the crap thet MS did over the years splatters in part also on Apple and Google (Android). The average user sees this feature as creepy and it way past time that the average user wakes up from their deep slumber.
Re:the weird thing is
Score:
, Insightful)
by
UnknowingFool
( 672806 )
writes:
on Thursday June 06, 2024 @12:58PM (
#64527983
Like Apple, Microsoft makes it's $$$$ selling software, hardware, and services. They don't make money selling ads and user data. Quite the opposite. MS is strongly incentivized to keep user data fairly secure. If they don't, they'll lose customers.
Or MS has decided to make as much money as they can by selling data AND software. All their moves currently point to that to me.
Parent
Share
Re:
Score:
by
Tablizer
( 95088 )
writes:
They don't make money selling ads and user data
MS may
want
snoopage to be a major revenue source, and this could result in them forcing bad ideas. Whether it is a real revenue source yet is not clear.
They could also damage themselves being overly fervent, like when they harmed desktop/mice usage to be "mobile friendly", making BOTH suck.
users are not customers...
Score:
, Interesting)
by
Lavandera
( 7308312 )
writes:
big corpos are...
This is an ideal tool to have better control over employees...
You can even have AI monitoring and rating employees...
And search for misconduct...
Once employee is caught on something small - they can be forced back to office or denied bonus/raise
Re:
Score:
by
EvilSS
( 557649 )
writes:
There are already way better (for their purpose, spying on employees) applications out there to do this today. MS has stayed away from this kind of thing with 365 and I don't see them doing it with Windows. They are happy to let third parties handle that.
Re:
Score:
by
null etc.
( 524767 )
writes:
So explain to me, then, why Microsoft so aggressively tries to get users to ignore Chrome, and instead use Edge for all Internet browsing?
Re:
Score:
by
Pinky's Brain
( 1158667 )
writes:
Bing and the default home page, but since Apple still sells you out to Google for now it's a bit miserly to differentiate based on that.
Re:
Score:
by
HiThere
( 15173 )
writes:
IIUC, Google makes it's money by selling ACCESS to users by profile. This gives them a strong incentive to keep those user profiles to themselves. (I'm not saying they don't make mistakes, but rather that releasing that data *IS* a mistake. So they're actually safer [by intention] than either MS or Apple.)
Now whether they're actually safer in practice may be another question.
Re:
Score:
by
Dracos
( 107777 )
writes:
MS is trying to become one of those other companies. Every one of Redmond's acquisitions for the last 15 years has not been companies, but
users
. The other side of userbase creation is forcing everyone onto a Microsoft Account.
Once MS has users, they will also extract every possible penny from that user data.
But MS being MS with their very spotty security record, of course they would roll out an alarming feature like Recall without encrypting the local database (there is already a tool that can export all
Re:the weird thing is
Score:
by
pixelpusher220
( 529617 )
writes:
on Thursday June 06, 2024 @01:30PM (
#64528145
The running joke is the Apple is a hardware company. They make software to sell more hardware. MS doesn't sell hardware in any comparable fashion.
Apple is motivated as you say, too much screw up and they lose customers. I strongly disagree MS is.
MS is still the massive 800 lb gorilla in the computer world. Home users used to be the bread and butter but today it's corporate users. And corporations aren't switching off windows anytime soon. Going back through Windows ME, Vista, 8 - decisions are directly opposed to their users interests on large and small areas.
And Recall is absolutely nothing new for corporate customers - every bit of it's surveillance has existed in windows for decades. The only new part is the AI analysis and it being stuffed onto home users.
MS is fast moving towards FB, Google and others...because like them, they can and their main user base is currently stuck there.
Parent
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Re:the weird thing is
Score:
, Informative)
by
computer_tot
( 5285731 )
writes:
on Thursday June 06, 2024 @01:43PM (
#64528199
If Microsoft doesn't make money selling ads, then why is the Windows start menu full of ads?
Parent
Share
Re:
Score:
by
christoban
( 3028573 )
writes:
Those aren't ads, they're a few preinstalled games which you can remove in a seconds with Right click -> Uninstall.
The only ads I've seen on Windows are for Edge, which are annoying AF but you don't see them a lot after you install another browser.
What's far worse for me is the constant attempts by Chrome to hijack my web site logins.
Re: the weird thing is
Score:
by
drinkypoo
( 153816 )
writes:
That IS weird. Like Apple, Microsoft is a known PRISM participant, and they are also a defense contractor. Trusting them seems daft at best.
Re:
Score:
by
Rick Schumann
( 4662797 )
writes:
I don't trust any of the above and don't recommend to anyone else that they trust them either.
Re:
Score:
by
larwe
( 858929 )
writes:
Come on now. The play here isn't actually for individual users. The play here is deep, DEEP monitoring of corporate employees. Within weeks at best, you can expect new plugins for O365 that let managers see who is "engaged" and who is "moving the needle". The goal being to subject every user of the Office suite to deep productivity analytics a la the worst things you've heard about Amazon et al restricting bathroom breaks and water rations.
Re:
Score:
by
StormReaver
( 59959 )
writes:
MS is strongly incentivized to keep user data fairly secure.
The timing on your comment is priceless.
[slashdot.org]
Re:
Score:
by
EvilSS
( 557649 )
writes:
Yea when it comes to recall it's not a matter of trusting MS. Hell, if they wanted that data and they wanted to lie about taking it, they could just, well, take it. They "own" the OS. My issue here is that Recall is, in isolation, an awesome idea. But it's an awesome idea that is just
completely incompatible with the reality we live in
. Hackers, spouses/SO's, parents, kids, teachers, law enforcement, border agents, employers (although there are way worse software packages to do this for them today), lawyers
Re:
Score:
by
gweihir
( 88907 )
writes:
Just that MS "just taking" the data _would_ get MS execs arrested in the EU and probably in some other places.
Re:
Score:
by
dskoll
( 99328 )
writes:
The issue is not so much whether MSFT itself is trustworthy. The issue is whether having such a juicy trove of unencrypted data just sitting around on an OS that is not exactly known for being highly-resistant to attacks is a good idea.
Re:
Score:
by
BadDreamer
( 196188 )
writes:
The LLM craze has everyone looking for data to feed the training with. Recall is a transparent attempt to create a vast collection of such data. Then a simple opt out change in TOS allows them to harvest it all as anonymoys text.
Everyone is looking for user data today. The equation has changed completely.
Re:
Score:
by
christoban
( 3028573 )
writes:
Like Apple, Microsoft makes it's $$$$ selling software, hardware, and services. They don't make money selling ads and user data. Quite the opposite. MS is strongly incentivized to keep user data fairly secure. If they don't, they'll lose customers.
I mean, clearly. Security and Microsoft are synonymous.)
Re:
Score:
by
nicubunu
( 242346 )
writes:
It looks like you misunderstand the business model from Microsoft and Google. Facebook, yes, they will sell your data left and right.
- Microsoft increasingly feed you ads, even in the dreaded Start Menu
- Google don't sell your data, they keep the data to themselves, they sell ads placement and for that to be valuable your data has to be safe
Re:What's the temperature in Hell, Norway again?
Score:
, Funny)
by
jd
( 1658 )
writes:
imipak@yaho[ ]om ['o.c' in gap]
on Thursday June 06, 2024 @01:30PM (
#64528143
Homepage
Journal
You're too late. Microsoft bought out Hell in 1998 and promoted Cthulhu and Nyarlothotep to the board of directors as part of the drive to promote Vista. Those aren't humans writing the current iteration.
Parent
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