Structured Discussions/Deprecation - MediaWiki
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Structured Discussions
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Tracked in
Phabricator
Task T332022
Structured Discussions Portal
Extension deprecated and replaced:
This extension
has been deprecated
and is no longer maintained. It has been replaced by
Discussion Tools
since
MediaWiki 1.40
. Users are encouraged to stop using it. Communities are encouraged to move their talk pages using Structured Discussions to subpages and stop using them.
Structured Discussions
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with most important points including posting and editing.
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Structured Discussions (SD - Flow) is used on
a few wikis
This extension is not maintained.
DiscussionTools
(DT) is the default discussion system on wikis now.
The
Growth team
(SD maintainers) and the
Editing team
(DT maintainers) have started thinking about how to deprecate Structured Discussions (and possibly
LiquidThreads
) and replace them with DiscussionTools.
Structured Discussions is a complex piece of software that generates a lot of maintenance issues. Estimating the work required to adapt Structured Discussions to the
Temporary Accounts
project revealed a very significant workload. In view of all these challenges, the decision was taken to inform the communities of the future deprecation of Structured Discussions.
The idea is to encourage communities to switch active Structured Discussions tools to the DiscussionTools talk page format. Then, the Structured Discussions pages would be removed from the wikis, at a yet to-be-defined date.
Project updates
edit
8 June 2022
– first internal document by
Kosta Harlan
(Staff software engineer, Growth team) and
Benoît Evellin
(Community Relations Specialist, attached to the Growth team) on sunsetting SD
14 March 2023
– first meeting with Growth and Editing about SD deprecation
14 March 2023
Comparison table of the two tools
29 March 2023
– creation of the project page
September 2023
Data on usage of Structured Discussions
December 2023
Community discussions regarding archiving SD boards on wikis.
May 2024
– Communication plan to assist communities archiving their Flow/LQT boards
October 2024
– Communities are progressively informed of Flow/LQT's deprecation and are invited to move their pages using these tools as archived pages. These pages will be set to read-only mode soon after.
30 October 2024
Phase 0 wikis
Flow/LQT pages are set to read-only.
28 November 2024
Phase 1 wikis
Flow/LQT pages are set to read-only.
16 December 2024
Phase 2 wikis
Flow/LQT pages are set to read-only.
Next – Convert Flow/LQT contents
Structured Discussions' deprecation
edit
The Wikimedia Foundation is working on changes to how IP editing is handled:
Temporary Accounts
. Temporary accounts for unregistered editors will be a new type of user account. This requires changing how features we use to contribute to wikis works.
This work concerns all features, and it raises some challenges. The case of Structured Discussions (also known as “SD” or “Flow”) is one of them. This extension is used at a few wikis, that were progressively contacted in November and December 2023. Flow is a complex piece of software that was never quite finished, fits poorly into the MediaWiki architecture, and creates a significant number of technical errors.
The usage of Structured Discussions is low. In August 2023, on average DiscussionTools is used about 18,780 times per day, while Structured Discussions is used about 250 times per day, mainly at French Wikipedia.
We considered several options to adapt Structured Discussions, including a full adaptation, or a partial adaptation where Temp accounts can respond but not create new conversations. All of them would take a lot of time and effort for a short-term benefit. Also, the Wikimedia Foundation's long-term plan is to remove Structured Discussions from the wikis, mainly due to the maintenance cost. As a consequence, we prefer to avoid adapting Structured Discussions to Temporary accounts.
We took the opportunity of work around Temporary accounts to question the concerned communities regarding the future of Structured Discussions.
DiscussionTools is the replacement for Structured Discussions. DiscussionTools is the default discussion system at all wikis. It allows anyone to start, reply or subscribe to a conversation. It provides a visual experience for wikitext-based conversations, and it covers
the vast majority of features Structured Discussions offers
The goal with this conversation is to respond to the community's questions regarding the archival of Structured Discussions.
The idea is to proceed in two stages:
discussion pages using SD are archived as subpages. They are replaced by a classic discussion page. In this way, the most active pages will already be ready when we proceed to step 2.
SD are removed from the wiki. Existing pages (including archived ones) will be converted to a format yet to be defined.
We encourage communities to start the first step.
Questions asked to the communities
edit
Starting at the end of November 2023, communities where Structured Discussions are still in use are progressively informed of the upcoming deprecation. We ask them the following questions:
Are the reasons given for archiving structured discussions clear?
Are the two steps outlined above for archiving and uninstalling structured discussions clear?
If so, what is a reasonable timeframe for archiving pages for deinstallation? At present, deinstallation is not planned on our side (even if the second quarter of 2024 is mentioned), as we are waiting for the end of these conversations, which take place on multiple wikis.
In your opinion, what format should pages currently using SDs be converted to when we proceed with the deinstallation of structured discussions?
Communities discussions report
Deprecation timeline
edit
Tracked in
Phabricator
Task T370722
The deprecation will be performed as follows:
Moving all Flow pages that aren't sub-pages as sub-pages
First this move is done by users. This way, users of active Flow boards have the opportunity to move active discussions to a classical new talk page.
At a given date, a script will moves the remaining pages.
Setting these pages in read-only mode.
Converting contents to wikitext.
The two first steps are conducted by the Editing team starting October 2024. Wikis have been grouped by phases.
Phase
Wikis
Moving all Flow pages as sub-pages
Setting Flow pages in read-only mode
Converting contents to wikitext
Phase 0
commonswiki, cswiki, enwiki, eowiki, frwiktionary, hewiki, kkwiki, metawiki, pawiki, ruwiki, specieswiki, svwiki, test2wiki, tewiki, nowiki, outreachwiki
Script
ran on
24 October 2024
30 October 2024
not defined
Phase 1
bswiki, elwiki, euwiki, fawiki, fiwiki, frwikiquote, frwikisource, frwikiversity, frwikivoyage, idwiki, lvwiki, plwiki, ptwiki, urwiki, viwikisource, zhwikisource
Script
ran on
28 November 2024
28 November 2024
not defined
Phase 2a
arwiki, cawiki, frwiki , mediawikiwiki , orwiki, wawiki, wawiktionary, wikidatawiki, zhwiki
Script
ran on
17 December 2024
16 December 2024
not defined
Phase 2b
cawikiquote, fiwikimedia, gomwiki, kabwiki, ptwikibooks, sewikimedia
to be added
to be added
not defined
Structured Discussions and DiscussionTools Comparative review
edit
Main characteristics
edit
Status of each tool, and their integration to the wiki's key features.
LiquidThreads
Structured Discussions
DiscussionTools
Convenient Discussions
Type of tool
MediaWiki extension
Gadget/Userscript based on DiscussionTools
Release status
Unmaintained
Maintained (Wikimedia Foundation)
Maintained (Volunteers)
Activation
Pending removal
Deployed on all wikis as the default discussion system.
User configurable (including opting-out).
User opt-in and configurable
Visual editing
No
Yes
Yes
No
Backwards-compatibility with wikitext
No
No
Yes
Yes
Templates support
Yes
Yes
Partial – Tables, templates and parser tags aren't allowed in replies in visual mode
Yes
Full history integration with the rest of the wiki
Yes
No
Yes
Yes
Mobile web support
No
Yes
Yes
No
Mobile app support
No
No
Yes
No
Permalink to a given comment
Yes
Yes
Yes – if the signature of the comment is not altered.
Discussion features
edit
Interaction with talk pages and other comments.
LiquidThreads
Structured Discussions
DiscussionTools
Convenient Discussions
Dedicated workflow for starting a new topic
Yes
Yes
Yes
Yes
Topic and contents preload
Yes
Yes
Yes
Yes
Indication of new comments when you read a topic
No
No
Yes
Yes
Indication of edited comments when you read a topic
Yes
Yes
No
Yes
Each conversation has a permalink
Yes
Yes – Each topic is a different page.
Yes – By linking to the topic heading, or by using the first comment's permalink.
Yes
Move topics between pages
Yes
No –
planned
but not implemented
Yes – via wikitext editing; title and signature mustn't be altered during the move.
Yes
Include discussions on another page and reply to them there
No
No –
planned
, including
cross-wiki transclusion
, but not implemented
Yes – via
transclusion
Editing comments
Yes
Yes
Partial – via wikitext editing the whole page or section. See
T242562
and
T245225
for the editing of individual comments.
Yes
Thank a comment from within the talk page
Partial – via
Page history
Yes
Partial – via
Thanks
in Page history.
In progress
– Work on supporting "Thanking" from the DiscussionTools UI is
being tracked
Yes
Sort topics by recent comment
Yes
Yes
No
No
Sort topics by start date
Yes
Yes
No
No
Summarize a discussion at the top of it
Yes
Yes
Partial – by editing opening comment.
Mark a message as read or unread
Yes
No
No
No
Show/hide (collapse) subthreads
Yes
No
No
Yes
Notifications and interactivity
edit
LiquidThreads
Structured Discussions
DiscussionTools
Convenient Discussions
Highlight a set of unread comments
No
Yes
Yes – only when subscribed to a topic and using links from notifications
Yes
Subscribe to be notified about new comments to a topic
Yes – via
Watchlist
Yes – via Echo
Yes – via Echo or itself
Be notified when a new topic is started on a talk page
Auto-subscription to a topic you created
Yes – default
Highlight a quoted comment
No – can link to comments but only as standalone pages
Yes
Yes
Yes
Notification of edited comments
Partial – only on your own comments
Yes
No
No
Maintenance and moderation
edit
LiquidThreads
Structured Discussions
DiscussionTools
Convenient Discussions
Direct access to user talkpage, contribs and more
Partial – if linked in the signature
Yes
Partial – if linked in the signature
Hide (moderate) a comment
Partial – no undelete UI
Yes
Partial – via
undo/rollback
(requires searching for edit in edit history) or archival templates, not included and requires editing wikitext
Yes
Hide or delete a topic
Yes
Partial – same as DiscussionTools
Archiving discussions
Not needed
Not needed
No – see
T337293
Requires 3rd party bots for automatic archival
Requires wikitext editing or 3rd party gadgets for manual archival
No – Same as DiscussionTools, though moving topics can be used for manual archival.
Report an inappropriate comment
No
No
In progress
No
Data on usage
edit
In August 2023, on average:
DiscussionTools is used about 18,780 times per day.
Flow is used about 250 times per day, mainly at French Wikipedia.
LiquidThreads is used less than once per day.
Notes and references
edit
We assume that any sub-page is an archive.
phab:T332022
A few wikis have Flow as the default discussion system.
4.0
4.1
4.2
4.3
DiscussionTools has
its own system of permalinks
based on signatures.
Convenient Discussions can auto-generate links for this system as well as
PermanentLinks
to the current revision.
T339247
– Create entry points for the Incident Report dialog with DiscussionTools
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