Wikivoyage:Travellers' pub – Travel guide at Wikivoyage

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by SHB2000 in topic
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Trip Planner WIP/RFC
edit
Latest comment:
4 hours ago
29 comments
7 people in discussion
Using some AI vibe coding and decent amount of reviews, I was able to put together a tool that we could use here. Basically it's a "Cart" for travel destinations. Myself, until now I used competitor page to put together travel itineraries - but this could very well replace it. Additionally, the tool could work as "To visit" list.
Notable features:
any/most WV marker can be dragged into it, its wikidata and lat/long will be saved; drag'n'drop supported to reorder stuff
the data is stored in mediawiki user-specific JS storage, so it should be available from all logged-in sessions
export to JSON/GPX/mediawiki text, import from JSON; I was thinking the mediawiki text could be later used for people who want to create travel itineraries maybe
map of the current trip
after grabbing
API key, one can ask it to calculate distances (by car or feet, probably others) between the POIs
I'd be happy if someone would give it a try -> you'll need to copy
User:Andree.sk/common.js
to your private common.js (or
use redirect
). --
andree
21:24, 28 January 2026 (UTC)
Reply
This sounds amazing – I'll give it a try. //
shb
22:25, 28 January 2026 (UTC)
Reply
After some quick use, I have to say it's great and can very much see this as a tool being published for all desktop users. A few minor things, though:
How is the "route" feature supposed to be used? I tried entering at least two cities in a few ways but I still keep getting the must enter at least 2 cities error.
Is it possible to interim save such a route in your userspace?
Will support for public transit integration be included? I don't imagine this to be easy (especially compiling multiple countries' and public transit operators' timetables together), and I don't know if it's doable with OSM data either.
Great job on this, btw! It's features like these we need to prevent this site from dying. //
shb
22:46, 28 January 2026 (UTC)
Reply
1) seems to work for me, maybe you can export/share the JSON and I'll check what's wrong...
2) not yet, I'll check if it's possible to somehow export the paths in some reasonable format
3) in principle, we could configure it to use some open GTFS data on per-city (e.g. in Prague I know for fact that complete routes are available), probably depends on how free the access is. The question is if the users would use it. But if we would head towards making WV one-stop tourist guide with more whistles included....
I'll test the stuff a bit more and if it turns out useful, I think indeed I'd put it out there, to get some feedback... Thanks for giving it early try! --
andree
18:13, 30 January 2026 (UTC)
Reply
I tried to make the tools as non-invasive as possible and made it public, to get more feedback. If you guys want to disable it, go into your preferences/Gadgets. If there's a consensus to remove it or not make it default enabled, we'll do it......
:) --
andree
21:02, 6 February 2026 (UTC)
Reply
I suppose it is useful, but I also think it indeed is intrusive, so not suitable for being activated by default. As I type this, I don't know how to close or move it, and it keeps de-iconifying, obscuring the text I am writing (yes, I can scroll the page so that the input box isn't covered, but it is still annoying). –
LPfi
talk
21:31, 6 February 2026 (UTC)
Reply
It shouldn't de-iconify on it's own, maybe some interaction with some browser extension, skin or
Parsoid
...? The only problem is, I'd say about 95% of people don't even know there are some gadgets in the settings. So if it's not on by default, almost noone will know it even exists. Especially the random visitors, for which I intended it the most (to keep them here)
:-( --
andree
21:42, 6 February 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Maybe then I'll add it to the icons at the top of of the article, instead of a floating icon, that's pretty tame, right? --
andree
21:55, 6 February 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Of course, unless it's on by default, few will find it, but it needs testing by regulars. I'll do some testing later, until then I cannot say what should be done. The de-iconifying happend when I used the reply function, on typing. –
LPfi
talk
22:26, 6 February 2026 (UTC)
Reply
LPfi
, I improved the behavior a bit, now it should be more low-key... Let me know if you are okay with it now, I'd again enable it, to get some more than zero feedback...
:) --
andree
20:29, 12 February 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Just an FYI that
mw:Extension:ReadingLists
is coming in the next few months which has persistent private storage of lists with a button that occupies the exact spaces you are adding your backpack icon. I think this feature could be ripe for repurposing/ customization in Wikivoyage as a "trip" feature (said as someone who has made
lists
in the past). You can play with it on test.wikipedia.org now as a beta feature.
Jdlrobson
talk
01:21, 16 February 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Huh, thanks for the pointer... For a basic "to read" list it's okay, but the API is veeeery basic
:-( I'll give it a try, but I'd say already now it's missing 90% of the functionality. If I only wanted a raw bookmark list, one can already put that in $User/Xyz... Especially I didn't want another "hidden storage" that can't be exported/exchanged with other people. Quite the opposite, I'd like it, if the data could be directly shared between users (think - a shared trip plan), but I think there's no such thing on mediawiki? --
andree
05:34, 16 February 2026 (UTC)
Reply
the api supports multiple lists; storing any page (across projects - including Wikipedia articles). Unlike the localStorage used in your tool it is persistent and will follow the user across devices (e.g. if I am on my mobile phone it will be annoying when I go to my laptop and the lists I spent hours creating are not there)
The sharing functionality has been built by you already. Why could it not be built on top of the reading list feature rather than as a separate feature? In future where there is a bookmark button and a backpack button that both save lists, users are going to be very confused about why that the difference between them is.
If you download the Wikipedia official app youll see additional features that are not yet on web. The android app supports sharing lists with other users (albeit wikipedia not wikivoyage).
Essentially I have a concern here that shipping this feature to all users is going to give us headaches later on when we have to consolidate it with the native bookmarking tool that is currently being built by Wikimedia Foundation staff.
Jdlrobson
talk
17:46, 16 February 2026 (UTC)
Reply
The gadget works on listing granularity, though... Esp. on WV, having article-based storage for this stuff is quite useless. For a trip to a bigger city, you could do is pick the favorite districts at best. There are also features like map and route calculation. Bt, it only uses localStorage for anonymous users (if it worked), but switches to mw.Api().saveOption("userjs-...") to have it persistent across devices.
I don't see a problem with WP official, we will see it if+when it gets here. I've been waiting such a thing for 5+ years now
:-) I don't mind competition, if the reading lists thing is better/voted for, we can disable this one. I'll add there a flash "beta" sticker in the meantime
:-) --
andree
18:20, 16 February 2026 (UTC)
Reply
The problem with sharing lists of articles is that it's easy at the English Wikipedia to construct a list of articles that has inappropriate meaning – not just something like "Donald Trump, Fascism, Dementia", which might annoy some people, but things like "My, Teacher, Mary, Smith, Has, Sex, With, Students" or "Meeting, 123, Maple, Street, Chicago, Tuesday, Noon, Come, Alone". Private storage is a subpoena-generating risk (because account credentials can be shared, so it can turn into a private messaging system), public storage is a libel (and therefore oversighter) problem, and public sharing is a brand nightmare. This killed
mw:Gather
but not (apparently) the desire to create lists.
Having said all that, I don't think that these risks play out equally across all the wikis. It's a problem for the biggest wikis, but not here.
WhatamIdoing
talk
17:58, 17 February 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Andree.sk
Just a minor bug. When I change the start date in the trip planner and click done, it doesn't save the newly selected date.
OhanaUnited
Talk page
16:28, 21 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
I'll check! --
andree
19:46, 21 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
My Trip Planner
edit
I just saw this icon and opened it up. I may have missed a post or two. Is there a place that elaborates on this new feature? —
Justin (
ko
vf
23:03, 15 February 2026 (UTC)
Reply
#Trip_Planner_WIP/RFC
. Never mind me. —
Justin (
ko
vf
23:05, 15 February 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Hi I also saw this and it's been interrupting some of my workflows on mobile so just turned it off. I am very concerned that logged out users cannot do the same.
Sorry to be a buzz kill, but I have some serious reservations about adding this to the experience for
ALL
logged out users based on the feedback from 3 users (
User:SHB2000
User:LPfi
and
User:Andree.sk
) and I'd like to see some more discussion. I think this should be an opt-in gadget until that's happened.
As someone who has recently taken over the listing editor I am very concerned about long maintenance and the anonymous community becoming too dependent on another gadget they we might not be able to maintain so I'd like to understand more of the plan there...
I will share more thoughts later. Would those be better to put here or on another talk page?
Jdlrobson
talk
00:32, 16 February 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Is there a way to make it show only to logged in users? //
shb
00:34, 16 February 2026 (UTC)
Reply
yes. You can set rights option in addition to the default option to limit to logged in users with a certain right. I believe there is a right specific to all logged in users.
Mw:Extension:Gadgets
. I would have no objection to us doing that given gadgets tend to be a good place to cultivate new ideas (withiut the associated stress that comes with supporting a gadget for all users 😀).
Jdlrobson
talk
01:17, 16 February 2026 (UTC)
Reply
We could also make it a desktop-only gadget.
WhatamIdoing
talk
19:14, 27 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
I was contemplating the same - on desktop you would prepare your trip (fill the days with POIs) and have the gadget. On mobile, you'd open e.g. wv.org/wiki/MyTrip and it would show you the trip for today on a map (with much reduced interface). This would play nicely with the locator gadget too... OTOH, typically when I'm on a vacation, I don't take my desktop - yet I want to be able to adjust the plans...
:) --
andree
19:34, 27 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
I think we can move discussion to
MediaWiki talk:Gadget-TripPlanner
now. Note gadgets dont support desktop vs mobile any more. You can choose not to display it by skin but that is not the same. We can however update the code to check things like browser viewport size.
Currently the gadget is enabled for all logged in users.
Jdlrobson
talk
00:12, 28 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Could you be more specific - which workflows does it break? Right now it really only adds that one icon... Does it interfere with some other gadgets or some browser? I'd like to make it ultimately available to everyone, if community doesn't disapprove it - but at the moment it doesn't show up for anonymous users (by accident
:) I can't find how to enable it
only for users, groups apparently can't be matched
?). As for maintenance, given how easy it became to (vibe-)code things, I'm not too concerned...
:-) --
andree
05:21, 16 February 2026 (UTC)
Reply
My biggest concern is it creates a performance issues by introducing it a cumulative layout shift which would be highly damaging to Wikivoyage showing up in search result pages. However there are also security concerns.
Regarding vibe coding - I think it has great application for rapid prototyping but typically the resulting code quality and UX can be problematic. There are various problems in the code that could impact end users and playing with the tool I found quite a few bugs. If something is built with AI tooling I still expect a human to be able to understand it.
Where would be the best page to share these concerns? On the gadget talk page?
Regarding user rights I think autoconfirmed should be a the right group so perhaps editsemiprotected right would act as a good proxy?
Jdlrobson
talk
17:34, 16 February 2026 (UTC)
Reply
It's a dynamically created gadget/on-click icon, does google/DDG/... index generated stuff already by programatically clicking all the stuff? Serious question, I'm no expert...
Obviously vibe-coding was a bit hyperbole, but for sure it was much less manual coding/inventing new stuff, than I'd expect... I tried to keep some security in mind, like not downloading stuff randomly and sanitizing inputs. We can for sure continue this on the gadget talk page! --
andree
18:25, 16 February 2026 (UTC)
Reply
I probably wouldn't want autoconfirmed as the barrier – it prevents passer-by casual users with accounts from using this tool, reducing overall functionality. //
shb
02:16, 24 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Sister Projects Task Force (SPTF) disbanded
edit
Latest comment:
28 days ago
12 comments
5 people in discussion
In some welcoming news,
finally
! (these were the guys who ran the public consultation for closing Wikinews) //
shb
23:54, 3 February 2026 (UTC)
Reply
The SPTF is disbanded after running the public consultation for closing Wikinews. Well, I think Wikinews users still have to archive the content since the SPTF's decision doesn't get negated by being dissolved.
Sbb1413
(he) (
talk
contribs
02:28, 4 February 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Task forces are meant to be short-term groups. Of course it was disbanded when its work was done. And as Sbb says, that doesn't invalidate any of its findings or negate any of its recommendations.
BTW, it's always been the Board of Trustees for the Wikimedia Foundation, and not the SPTF, that will be deciding whether to archive Wikinews. There are about four board meetings a year, and they also pass resolutions outside of meetings. The most recent meeting was in December, so it's possible that the decision has already been taken, but from a general how-boards-work POV, I'd actually expect it to happen in the next meeting. They'll probably want to make that decision before they set the budget for the next year (which is traditionally their second meeting of the calendar year), because their decision might affect the budget (e.g., one-time expenses if they decided to support a fork to a new organization).
WhatamIdoing
talk
22:47, 4 February 2026 (UTC)
Reply
A bit of a late reply, but I do think it's safe to say Wikinews is dead. Despite issues with the consultation process, I don't think there's anything saving it now (and like you I also expect the decision to come anytime in the next upcoming month or two). But I do really hope that Board takes feedback from this, were a similar task force in the future to be appointed (and definitely not with 2 sanctioned/self-sanctioned members and 1 very inactive user out of 6). //
shb
21:47, 6 February 2026 (UTC)
Reply
The task force only had
five
non-Board members on it. One is a former WMF board trustee, one is a former steward, one practically is the French Wiktionary, and the other two I don't know well. One of those got into some trouble last year, but if it were possible for the WMF to magically know, in 2023, that an editor would be desysopped in 2025, then I think those powers could probably be put to better use than merely not appointing him to a temporary committee. (Victoria, who posted the list of appointed volunteers, is a community-selected WMF board trustee, having been a top vote-getter in 2021 and 2024. If you think that's a problem [I don't], then remember that the next time you hear someone saying that all WMF trustees should be elected by editors.)
WhatamIdoing
talk
06:14, 7 February 2026 (UTC)
Reply
It's a problem, but not one that I think can actually be easily solved. //
shb
06:16, 7 February 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Late to the conversation. I wouldn't give much too much thought about the composition of the task force members. The task force selects members themselves without an open election so it's basically a cabal/echo chamber. New vacancies were not advertised and simply appointed via a secret process. I have given a bigger breakdown on why the task force failed (and not just from Wikinews's perspective) in
this comment
OhanaUnited
Talk page
14:04, 17 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
I wonder what makes you think that task force "failed". I suspect that they achieved the only thing they were really meant to do.
For that matter, what makes you think there were any "new vacancies"? Unlike the US Supreme Court, task forces don't have a set, limited size. If the group is working closely with someone, then it makes sense to make them be part of the group. The second most senior person for the WMF's entire technical division could not be easily replaced by any volunteer contributor, so your realistic choices are "appoint him", "keep it a secret", or "have an election just for show, with all the other candidates disqualified because they can't do what he can (e.g., assign WMF staff to study technical migration plans)". Which would you choose under those circumstances?
WhatamIdoing
talk
17:34, 17 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
I'll keep my reply here short since I have written extensively in the linked comment on Meta. The objective of the sister project was immense. It was, for the first time, allowing non-trustees to determine whether to open new sister project(s). At the same time, it's going to determine, for the very first time*, whether a project be closed. You absolutely need to ensure that the task force selection process is representative of the community and not selected through backdoor channels or knowing the right people because the result and impact is immense. The failure of the task force in both objectives further fracture the Wikinews community and set the adoption of new sister project process back by at least 2-3 years while proposals have been waiting for 7 years (and we're complaining about
drop in human traffic because of AI
while ignoring new ideas and projects that
could
counter the drop). Not to mention that the conduct by some of the selected task force members were less then stellar to say the least.
The September 11 memorial wiki
was the first (and I believe the only time) a WMF non-language wiki be closed. But it's not at the same level and prominence as Wikinews.
OhanaUnited
Talk page
14:17, 19 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
I don't think the objective was immense. I suspect that the actual, if unwritten, objective was to figure out whether Wikinews should be closed. The founder of Wikinews thought it was a failed experiment some 15 years ago. People have been talking about closing it for approximately forever. If you'd said to me five years ago, and especially at any point after
Pi zero
died, "Huh, the Board is setting up a committee to look at opening and closing non-Wikipedias", my first thought would have been "I bet they'll be looking at finally getting rid of Wikinews". This shouldn't be a surprise to anyone who has been paying attention to Wikinews.
The SPTF made
recommendations
to a Board committee. They did not make
decisions
. There have always been non-trustees making recommendations. It's now up to the committee to vote on whether to take this recommendation, or a different one, to the Board for a vote. (There are also
131 other closed wikis
.)
I don't agree that all stakeholders have to be at the table when the question is whether to fire one of the stakeholders for under-performance. I bet you wouldn't expect that for a real-world job, either.
WhatamIdoing
talk
17:32, 19 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Heya, long time no write here. Just some points:
I was an advisor in the SPTF, not a full member, only BoT members had voting rights in the SPTF. In the limited meetings I attended, decisions were already made, so my contributions were minimal, mainly promoting community consultations about their decisions, which proved ineffective since SPTF decisions were pre-determined.
Upon my sanction, I was immediately removed, missing subsequent meetings. While I agree that sanctioned individuals shouldn't be part of such bodies, at the time I still had community trust and always focused on small communities.
Btw, there was a proposal for a
Sister Projects Committee
(SPC); I suggest promoting initiatives like this, because WMF should not have task forces that override community wishes.
Cya~
Galahad
sasageyo!
esvoy
03:47, 25 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
I think the WMF should override some community wishes, because some of them are bad. Five or ten years ago, the WMF had to override a community decision to block all "out" gay editors on sight. Before that, they had to explain to another community that it wasn't okay for them to punish women for editing articles about sex, even if their culture thought that was immodest behavior. Each community must meet the minimum standards, even if it "wishes" to do otherwise.
WhatamIdoing
talk
21:50, 26 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Bot to convert listings to templates?
edit
Latest comment:
1 month ago
29 comments
9 people in discussion
After 13 years, many Wikivoyage listings are still in plain text, rather than templates. This means they can't have coordinates, they're often badly formatted because they don't use our templates (Eat, Drink, Sleep, See, etc.), and they don't have a lastedit parameter so the date of information is unclear allowing them to become out of date. I try to fix these manually, but in some cases (
Amandola
) the task is just too daunting. I bet that half of the businesses listed there are defunct. without templates
I think we used to have a bot that did just this. Could we create a new one? Listings would still need to be checked, but this could save a lot of time and make our listings more time-relevant, the biggest critique of our website from outside of Wikivoyage.
--Comment by
Selfie City
talk
) (
contributions
14:52, 4 February 2026 (UTC)
Reply
That sounds like a great idea, but I would ask that the bot
not
fill in the lastedit field, but leave it blank. We would not want a bunch of listings imported from Wikitravel to be automatically converted to templates indicating that the listing was last updated on 4 Feb 2026 (for example). I have been trying to apply templates to new listings without templates that have been added to a couple of England articles (by an experienced editor). It's a job and a half.
Ground Zero
talk
22:06, 4 February 2026 (UTC)
Reply
I agree. I should've clarified that I mean the lastedit parameter should be created empty, so that editors can make edits and fill it in.
--Comment by
Selfie City
talk
) (
contributions
22:59, 4 February 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Do you have some representative list of such pages? A bot is not a problem to make, but to make it reliable and not do breaking edits is something different... --
andree
22:06, 4 February 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Amandola
Gilbertsville
Ilhéus
Neuss
--Comment by
Selfie City
talk
) (
contributions
23:02, 4 February 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Listings are often but not automatically a good way to convey info, so unleashing a bot will generate text that only a bot will ever want to read (and perhaps that day is dawning). As the experienced editor that GZ just had a little poke at, I'm bound to observe that the System Architects of WV have endowed us with half a dozen different formats for presenting info. It is not for us mere mortals to know their sublime intent, but I suggest we should continue to make use of them all.
Grahamsands
talk
22:54, 5 February 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Lists of untemplated restaurants, bars and hotels look like the stuff that was imported from Wikitravel in 2007. When I use Wikivoyage for travelling, I ignore undated entries because they are usually outdated cruft. I think Wikivoyage should be doing better than that in 2026.
Ground Zero
talk
02:49, 6 February 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Agreed. They also just look pure messy (esp markers) and my mind often just glosses right by. //
shb
03:16, 6 February 2026 (UTC)
Reply
I understand, but I think that for the sake of creating a bot, we shouldn't let ourselves be sidetracked by that concern. We have articles and business listings from 2007 that actually
are
unchanged. That's the main problem my proposal is attempting to fix.
--Comment by
Selfie City
talk
) (
contributions
13:55, 6 February 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Oh ftr I support – listings should be the norm sitewide. //
shb
21:42, 6 February 2026 (UTC)
Reply
I think in some cases, it's fine to list POIs as markers or simply in bold
I've noticed you do this in articles, and personally I don't have a problem with that. My concern is more with articles pulled from WikiTravel which use their old format. These are the "dinosaur" articles rather than the newer drafts.
--Comment by
Selfie City
talk
) (
contributions
22:57, 5 February 2026 (UTC)
Reply
I'm not overly concerned by it.
Yellowknife's See section
is a mix of bulleted items, templates and nested templates. And that doesn't bother me.
OhanaUnited
Talk page
14:10, 6 February 2026 (UTC)
Reply
The only bulleted items in Yellowknife#See are the Aurora Borealis, and the Great Slave Lake. If someone did assign coordinates to the aurora, they would be wrong. As the lake covers an area larger than Wales, coordinates would not be useful.
Ground Zero
talk
14:25, 6 February 2026 (UTC)
Reply
There's also "buy" in Yellowknife which is a mixture of bulleted items and templates.
OhanaUnited
Talk page
15:05, 6 February 2026 (UTC)
Reply
All of the stores listed in Buy are templated. The bulleted items are things that you might consider buying, like Caribou-skin mittens, so they would not have a template with coordinates, date, address, telephone. It would be a problem for a bot, but the concern I am raising is about businesses that are listed without dates.
Ground Zero
talk
17:19, 6 February 2026 (UTC)
Reply
I'm imagining a bot that is applied on a case by case basis, not sitewide. I don't think it would need to be used on decent articles like Yellowknife, where minor fixes if needed could be made by a human.
--Comment by
Selfie City
talk
) (
contributions
13:36, 9 February 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Non-decent articles probably need more than bot-tidying. A human should make the major fixes. Of course, if they want a tool to do some of the work automatically, I don't object, but listifying should not be the only thing done. Most restaurant and hotel listings not edited since 2013 should probably be removed rather than listingified, unless they can be at least tentatively verified. –
LPfi
talk
14:00, 9 February 2026 (UTC)
Reply
I agree, but listifying is a tool that would make the human updates (checking businesses' status, etc.) quicker.
--Comment by
Selfie City
talk
) (
contributions
16:08, 9 February 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Just run that by me again. The problem is that we have far more outdated entries than editorial input to update them. Many are not time-stamped: you and I would know that these are especially likely to be outdated but the casual reader is left guessing. The proposed solution is to deploy a bot that would fix none of them but create far more, as it would listify entries that are fairly recent and those that are not time-sensitive, such as landmarks. That's the idea, right?
Grahamsands
talk
19:43, 10 February 2026 (UTC)
Reply
We have two separate issues here. One is listings that are not dated. That's a problem, but it needs to be fixed with user input.
I'm talking about entries that were imported from WikiTravel and aren't even in a listing template. Should we just leave them as timeless messes? At least if they're in the template, they can be updated more easily...
--Comment by
Selfie City
talk
) (
contributions
20:52, 10 February 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Indeed – there is nothing saying that a bot
has
to fill in the lastedit field. //
shb
23:08, 10 February 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Any such bot IMO should skip the
|lastedit=
field, and it could even add a
|bot=yes
field. Since unknown parameters are usually ignored, that shouldn't even require any changes to the templates.
WhatamIdoing
talk
19:27, 11 February 2026 (UTC)
Reply
I am not sure that unknown parameters are ignored in listing fields as I have recently seen errors being flagged up for twitter and facebook fields which I think were a brief experiment.
I do think that converting suitable text to listings by a human controlled bot is a good idea. Having a listing with its "edit" link at the end encourages users to make minor updates. I was disappointed to see that a bot recently converted a few inline listings to markers, for example on
Benešov
, but this was only on a very few pages.
AlasdairW
talk
21:33, 11 February 2026 (UTC)
Reply
See
listing template discussion
--
andree
16:54, 12 February 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Good idea regarding the bot parameter –
I think the default listing template you see at the source header would need to be changed; I'm not sure how this can be done, but I'm sure there is a way. //
shb
21:46, 11 February 2026 (UTC)
Reply
I believe the warning for unknown parameters is shown only for those who have enabled such warnings, i.e. people who in this case indeed should see it (and remove the parameter if the listing is OK). If the template were edited, what would you like it to do when that parameter is set? Perhaps have it show a warning
:-)
LPfi
talk
09:36, 12 February 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Oh I see what you mean. //
shb
09:57, 12 February 2026 (UTC)
Reply
I think that
converting a templated listing for a restaurant to ordinary text
is a bad idea. In addition to removing the date stamp that tells the reader how current the information is, it removes the coordinates, and in this case the phone number.
Ground Zero
talk
12:03, 23 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Agreed; it also makes the article in general look a lot less organized and tidy, and is against current site consensus anyway. //
shb
12:16, 23 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
GPS locator gadget
edit
Latest comment:
27 days ago
4 comments
2 people in discussion
You can check out the gadget by enabling it in
your settings
- it adds 'current position' marker into dynamic maps around here. Feedback welcome
:-) --
andree
20:16, 15 February 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Andree.sk
Having properly tested out this gadget now, this is an amazing little gadget. I'd support making this mainstream and default for everyone. //
shb
12:09, 8 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Given the lack of objections, should this be made a mainstream default gadget? //
shb
09:20, 23 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
I made it so. If someone is against, speak now or stay silent forever...
:)
The poimap2.php thing also has this feature actually, but I think it's not used too much anymore? I'll try to get some statistics from somewhere... --
andree
18:51, 27 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
New grant applications that might bring edits in April
edit
Latest comment:
9 days ago
17 comments
6 people in discussion
I have had a quick look at a list over 50 grant applications in
meta:Grants:Regions/Sub-Saharan Africa
. I only looked at the details of a small selection of the applications in the "Rapid Funds - Fiscal Year (FY) 2025-26 (SSA)" - "Under Review" in the box at he bottom of the page. I found two that planned to edit Wikivoyage:
meta:Grants:Programs/Wikimedia Community Fund/Rapid Fund/Promoting Tourism and Travel Information in Northeast Nigeria through Wikimedia (ID: 23747298)
meta:Grants:Programs/Wikimedia Community Fund/Rapid Fund/Open Heritage:Documenting Northern Nigerian Cultures, Festivals, and Emirates on Wikimedia (ID: 23741619)
You can comment on the applications on the linked grant discussion pages. Has the discussion of the new policy on
Wikivoyage:Welcome, event organizers
concluded? - it may be appropriate to mention this policy in grant application discussion.
AlasdairW
talk
22:27, 26 February 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Do we know which user is behind the two grants? Unfortunately the edit histories of both applications were done by a bot. //
shb
23:07, 26 February 2026 (UTC)
Reply
See the answer to question: "8. Describe your team.", nearly halfway down the page.
AlasdairW
talk
23:15, 26 February 2026 (UTC)
Reply
I see – pinging
Ishaku Ajeje
Mlamido
Gwanki
Mahuta
Mr. Snatch
A Sulaiman Z
– can you all confirm you are aware of this discussion?
While I'm at it, I'm going to be completely honest: I don't get good feelings about the first. Two of the organisers listed there,
Special:CA/Hajara ya'u
and
Special:CA/Nnamadee
, do not even have local accounts on enwikivoyage (i.e. they never even
visited
Wikivoyage whilst logged in). That alone should be a bit concerning, but I am happy to be proved otherwise (and I hope it ends up being that way). //
shb
03:20, 27 February 2026 (UTC)
Reply
SHB2000
Ikan Kekek
Thank you very much for contacting us regarding the proposal.
Typically, we form a team with members from different specializations who work collaboratively on such projects. We assure you that we will fully comply with all Wikivoyage policies and guidelines throughout the process.
Thank you again for your consideration.
Mr. Snatch
talk
08:45, 27 February 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Thank you for posting, and please stay in touch with us so we can be available to help with planning in any way that could be useful.
Ikan Kekek
talk
09:06, 27 February 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Ikan Kekek
AlasdairW
SHB2000
Thank you very much for reaching out to us about this proposal,
, I am very pleased with your response. As you rightly noted, some individuals have not yet opened accounts on Wikivoyage. For this reason, we aim to intensify our efforts to encourage people from Northeast Nigeria to begin contributing actively to Wikivoyage. This will be achieved by helping them appreciate the value of their cultural heritage and traditions, and by reassuring them that their contributions will gain global recognition when shared not only on Wikivoyage but also on Wikipedia as a whole. We assure you of our full commitment to strictly following all relevant guidelines.
Ishaku Ajeje
talk
09:31, 27 February 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Thanks very much! I'm posting to those talk pages.
Ikan Kekek
talk
23:19, 26 February 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Hello
AlasdairW
, Thank you for for pointing out the inclusion of Wikivoyage in our project.
In our proposal
Open Heritage: Documenting Northern Nigerian Cultures, Festivals, and Emirates
, we included Wikivoyage because the organizers already have practical experience creating and improving Wikivoyage articles. The project is focused on documenting Northern Nigerian emirates, festivals, and cultural heritage, and some of these topics are directly relevant to travel and cultural tourism. Because of this, it makes sense to improve related travel information where appropriate.
We are aware of the ongoing discussion about the new policy for event organizers on Wikivoyage. We will review the guidance on
Wikivoyage:Welcome, event organizers
and make sure our project activities align with the expected standards for training and content contributions. Our team will ensure that our contributions follow Wikivoyage policies and best practices.
We are not connected to the other proposal mentioned. Our team will focus on implementing our own project activities, while ensuring that any contributions to Wikivoyage follow the
Wikivoyage guidelines
and scope. We also welcome any suggestions from the community that can help improve the quality of our contributions.
Thank you
Gwanki
talk
06:00, 27 February 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Awesome, @
Gwanki
, glad to hear you're aware – hopefully all goes well for you with the grant.
:) //
shb
06:35, 27 February 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Indeed, good luck with the grant application, and thanks for working with us! My feeling is that for Wikivoyage, the most important things in regard to festivals are what, when and where. From what I've seen, what is the most commonly covered of the three, but when and exactly where may be omitted, and visitors need that information for planning and to attend. What we don't want is either just a list of festival names without other information or lots of detail about the what with no practical information about when or where to go.
Ikan Kekek
talk
07:26, 27 February 2026 (UTC)
Reply
I am pleased to see that the grant applicants have engaged with us, and I hope that the applications are successful.
AlasdairW
talk
11:13, 27 February 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Unfortunately, these two grant applications were not funded.
AlasdairW
talk
23:22, 27 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
AlasdairW
Yes, we didn’t anticipate this outcome, but considering the high number of proposed projects, we fully understand the limitations involved.
Mr. Snatch
talk
08:32, 28 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
I'm really sorry to hear that. I hope you guys can reapply soon. Let us know if we might be able to help you in any way.
Ikan Kekek
talk
22:44, 28 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Ikan Kekek
Thank you so much for your kind message. We truly appreciate your support and encouragement. We will definitely consider reapplying soon, and we’ll reach out if we need any assistance.
Mr. Snatch
talk
23:04, 14 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
There are two other grant applications that mention Wikivoyage, but these are proposing less edits, and may not have much impact:
meta:Grants:Programs/Wikimedia Community Fund/Rapid Fund/Wikipédia & Génocide des Tutsis (ID: 23653583)
This Rwanda based application proposes to edit 10 pages on Wikivoyage, but as the application is mainly written in French, they may not contribute here.
meta:Grants:Programs/Wikimedia Community Fund/Rapid Fund/Advance Wikipedia Awareness and Training at Abdu Gusau Polytechnic and Historical Documentation of Gusau, Zamfara States. Follow up to our Previous Initiative. (ID: 23526700)
is based in Nigeria and proposes to edit 30 pages on Wikivoyage, but the main activity is adding photos to Commons. As it is planned for 2026-01-01 - 2026-03-31, it is unlikely to get a grant in time.
As before there are comment links in the applications.
AlasdairW
talk
11:24, 27 February 2026 (UTC)
Reply
WikiM.A.R.C.A. project - translation of Wikivoyage articles from Italian to English
edit
Latest comment:
30 days ago
9 comments
4 people in discussion
Hi everyone! We are Federica (User:Chicafratta) and Alessio (User:Aionna), two Italian researchers working on the
WikiM.A.R.C.A.
project. The name is an acronym for
Marche, Artigianato, Ricerca, Cultura e Accoglienza
(Marche, Craftsmanship, Research, Culture and Hospitality). It is a broader project coordinated by the University of Macerata in collaboration with Confartigianato Macerata - Fermo - Ascoli Piceno (a trade union association that represents, protects and develops over 8,000 small businesses and artisans in the area) and funded by ANCoS APS. This project aims at improving online content about the Marche region on Wikimedia platforms such as Wikipedia and Wikivoyage. The project focuses on researching and documenting local culture, traditions, itineraries and products, with the goal of creating reliable and useful information for both residents and travellers.
We are mainly working on the Italian version of Wikivoyage, where we are creating itineraries based on traditional food and wine or local craftsmanship. These articles will later be translated into English.
Thank for your welcome and we are open to any help or suggestions!
Chicafratta
talk
16:20, 12 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Thank you very much. It sounds like a great project! I would suggest looking at existing itineraries in
Category:Star articles
and
Category:Guide articles
. Some existing travel topics on wine regions and craftsmanship could also be worth looking at; I know
Colorado's Wine Country
was a featured
Off the beaten path
article some years ago and
Mexican artesanias
is a guide-level article. I also recommend reading or at least looking through the key points in the core policy and guideline pages linked in
Wikivoyage:Welcome, event organizers
Wikivoyage:What is an article?
Wikivoyage:Don't tout
Wikivoyage:Copyleft
Wikivoyage:Welcome, Wikipedians
and
Wikivoyage:Goals and non-goals
, and familiarizing yourselves with
Wikivoyage:Listings
templates if you have not already done so.
Please ask us any questions that come to your minds when you read those pages. I believe there are at least a couple of differences in policy and guidelines between it.wikivoyage and en.wikivoyage.
I very much look forward to reading your contributions!
All the best,
Ikan Kekek
talk
19:50, 12 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Looking forward to this, too.
:) //
shb
20:47, 12 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Hi everyone! @
Aionna
and I’d like to share a quick update on our work: we have completed and published the article
Vernaccia Nera wine route
. We have followed the instructions on this page
Wikivoyage:Itinerary article template
. If you have time to take a look, we would really appreciate any feedback.
We also have a question: is it possible to display the itinerary route on the map, as we did in the Italian version
Percorso della Vernaccia Nera
? If so, could you please explain how to do it?
Thank you very much!
:)
Chicafratta
talk
11:53, 18 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Thank you for creating this. I have made a couple of small technical additions. I set the article as Outline, but it does look very close to being Usable. It would be helpful to have a little more on getting to Serrapetrona, as I see from
it:Serrapetrona
that there are buses to get there. It would be even better if you could also create
Serrapetrona
AlasdairW
talk
22:00, 18 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
I've made a few copyedits (all very minor), but otherwise a really solid start,
Chicafratta
– great work so far.
:) //
shb
04:50, 19 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Thanks for your help. We will make the changes you have suggested. As for the article on Serrapetrona, we are currently working on it:
Serrapetrona
(it is just the Sandbox). We will update you once it is finished.
Chicafratta
talk
18:09, 19 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Hiǃ We have just published the article on
Serrapetrona
, If you want to take a look and give us any feedback. Thank youǃǃ
Chicafratta
talk
12:57, 24 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Hi, @
Chicafratta
, I just glanced at
your edit
to the
Marche
page. What stands out is the use of "perfect" and "ideal". Those are on en.wikivoyage's list of
words to avoid
. You might also benefit from looking at
WV:Welcome, tourism professionals
, because while it's good to put great destinations in a good light, we should do so by giving specific information, not by using the kinds of promotional words and phrases travel agencies or tourism bureaux use.
Ikan Kekek
talk
13:09, 24 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Article about living on a temporary work visa in Germany?
edit
Latest comment:
1 month ago
8 comments
4 people in discussion
My partner and I are currently in Berlin on 6-month freelancers' visas. We're early in our time here but already have a lot to share about the process of applying for the visas, what you need to do to follow up when you have moved to wherever you're staying, and various differences between the U.S. and Germany. (For example, over-the-counter medications tend to be more expensive here and dispensed in much smaller quantities, and some supplements are more difficult to find; however, groceries are cheaper and produce and meat in supermarkets is generally excellent.) We have articles about studying abroad in different countries and retiring abroad. Should I start an article about living and working in Germany as an American?
Ikan Kekek
talk
15:57, 16 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Is a general article for non-EU people (not just for Americans) possible?
It would be nice to have articles like that for many countries. For example, I learned a few years ago that if you are living and working in Italy, you have to register your lease. This isn't to prove your residency so much as a way for them to prevent the landlord from "forgetting" to report your rent on their income taxes. (It also makes you eligible for various rental protection laws.)
WhatamIdoing
talk
17:21, 16 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Yes, it's possible, though the work I do will necessarily be from an American's perspective and experience. You have to register your place of residence here, too. That's the first official thing to do after you arrive at your rented apartment, receive a form from your landlord and fill out a form you bring to your appointment.
Ikan Kekek
talk
17:35, 16 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
I'm not clear whether I have permission to start this article or not.
Ikan Kekek
talk
10:36, 18 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
I'd say go for it (something like
Living on a temporary work visa in Germany
, whatever you think works) – what you write might be oriented towards someone migrating from the US, but I suspect over time as the article gets more edits, that will fade out. //
shb
10:41, 18 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Or
Working in Germany
. I think most of the content will apply also to somebody who gets permanent residency, and much of it also to EU citizens who don't need visas. Anybody should understand that it is directed to people from abroad. We have several Working in… articles already.
Working in the United States
seems to concentrate on directly work (or employment contract) related issues. In
Working in Finland
I have included a range of practical issues, such as housing and children, offloading to it practical matters many people who stay a longer time may need to consider. –
LPfi
talk
11:43, 18 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
I think many American-specific issues may be interesting for people from other countries too; somebody from a non-Western country who knows the USA even superficially may expect things to be the same in Germany. And for me, I suppose I will learn quite some about the USA from what is different in an EU country (although that's of course a side point). –
LPfi
talk
11:48, 18 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Ok, I'll start a draft in my userspace some time within the next 3 weeks or so, probably sooner. I would start by mentioning something about the fact that there are different types of work visas, my experience of the process of applying for one type of visa from my home country, what I've heard about how much harder it is for nationals of developing countries to get such visas, the things you need to do when you are in Germany with your work visa in order to be able to work, bill for your services and earn money, and some side points about similarities and differences between life in the U.S. and Germany such as more strongly enforced and relatively more uniform quiet hours, especially as relates to quiet days - Sunday and holidays - over-the-counter medications being more expensive and available in much smaller quantities per box and dry cleaning being more expensive and slower but produce being high-quality and often cheaper. OK, that was a run-on sentence that should have semicolons, but I'm not going to edit it on my phone.
:-)
Ikan Kekek
talk
12:16, 18 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Listings vs. Markers
edit
Latest comment:
23 days ago
6 comments
3 people in discussion
What are the criteria for choosing one or the other? I'd consider listings the default & would certainly use them whenever creating a
list
, & markers
only
when mentioning a place in running text.
I cannot think of a case where I'd want to have:
{{marker | name= ...
However, others obviously feel differently. For example
Himalayas#Destinations
has multiple lists done with markers.
Pashley
talk
10:29, 18 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
I tend to use markers to list cities and other destinations, as well as adding coordinates for places mentioned in running texts. Otherwise, I use listings. However, I do think we should use listings for cities and other destinations as well, and reserve markers for places mentioned in running texts.
Sbb1413
(he) (
talk
contribs
11:04, 18 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Ground Zero
I see you converting listings to markers in
Western Sahara
. Why?
Pashley
talk
12:45, 31 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Regarding
these edits
, it is our standard formatting to use markers for cities and other destinations in region articles, and to use listing templates for See, Do, etc. listings. Why would this article be different? A city doesn't need address, phone, price, hours information, unlike a museum or restaurant.
Ground Zero
talk
12:55, 31 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Thank you. That does make sense.
Pashley
talk
13:17, 31 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
I went looking for a policy on this, and I couldn't find one. This is just one of those unwritten conventions. that trip people up. I think it would be a good idea to formalize this. Thoughts?
Ground Zero
talk
20:05, 31 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Global ban for Faster than Thunder
edit
Latest comment:
1 month ago
3 comments
2 people in discussion
Hello, this message is to notify that
Faster than Thunder
has been nominated for a global ban at
m:Requests for comment/Global ban for Faster than Thunder
. You are receiving this notification as required per the
global ban
policy as they have made at least 1 edit on this wiki. Thanks, //
shb
01:49, 22 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Asamboi
Also not sure if anyone has alerted you on FtT's latest misdeeds with off-wiki harassment, but some of it does involve you (happy to send evidence by email if you want) //
shb
04:43, 22 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Thanks for the heads-up. I was blissfully unaware, but I would appreciate it if you could email me the details.
Asamboi
talk
06:38, 22 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Airfares rising?
edit
Latest comment:
29 days ago
7 comments
4 people in discussion
I've recently had occasion to look at some intercontinental air fares & am seeing some painfully large numbers.
Is this due to the war in the Middle East causing rising fuel prices? Is it something we should write about? Where?
Pashley
talk
05:02, 24 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
I've been noticing this too (planning to fly out in August doing some early preparations). I'd very much put it on the Middle East war and fuel shortages caused by it. Maybe a box on
flying
? //
shb
05:45, 24 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Airfares go up and down, but this doesn't belong in a warning box.
Ground Zero
talk
11:58, 24 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Perhaps a caution box? It certainly seems worth mentioning since it affects many travellers, though discussing blame would be out of scope.
Pashley
talk
12:16, 24 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Correct, though of course we know who to blame...
Ikan Kekek
talk
13:03, 24 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Indeed... (not that it should be conveyed into mainspace, but you know what I mean). //
shb
01:45, 25 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
I added a caution box at
Planning your flight
Pashley
talk
06:31, 26 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Revamping
travel topics
edit
Latest comment:
28 days ago
2 comments
1 person in discussion
Using some AI/vibecoding, I tried to redesign
travel topics
into something a bit more modern and minimalist (and something a bit based on
abstractwiki's Main Page
), with a bit of a hoverover effect. No templates were changed, but the boxes are now based on
{{
topicbox2
}}
instead of
{{
topicbox
}}
(since I didn't want to unilaterally change the look of the template).
The result is at
User:SHB2000/travel topics
; if there are no objections, I'll adjust the
travel topics
page accordingly. Works on both Vector 2010 and 2022. //
shb
01:44, 25 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Done
, given the lack of objections. //
shb
23:57, 26 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Wikivoyage World Cup 2026
edit
Latest comment:
4 days ago
4 comments
3 people in discussion
Hey everyone!
We at Wikimedia Small Projects are excited to suggest bringing the Wikivoyage communities together once more for a event—you know, just in time for the 2026 World Cup! We’re calling it the "Wikivoyage World Cup 2026," and we’d love for you to be part of it.
Here are some of our hopes for the event:
To bring all our active Wikivoyage communities together—especially those speaking Spanish, English (yes, I know this is the right community), and French, since they’re connected to the host countries.
To team up with local chapters like Wikimedia Mexico, Wikimedia Canada, and the affiliates in the United States.
To improve existing articles and create new ones about Canada, Mexico, and the United States.
To have a centralnotice to keep everyone in the loop.
We’re thinking of holding the event from June 11 to August 20, so it’s a good idea to start getting things ready now. I know this has
come up before
, and I’d really love for you to join us in coordinating the event and reaching out to affiliates and/or volunteers who might be interested.
Regards,
Lord Ravager
talk
03:03, 25 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Like last time, I'm happy to judge/evaluate the articles submitted as part of this contest once again. //
shb
05:36, 25 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
I support this initiative. I would say that it should be open to all Wikivoyage languages since many dominant national football teams don't use English, French or Spanish (looking at you, Portugal, Brazil and Germany).
OhanaUnited
Talk page
15:58, 15 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Lord Ravager
Can you let us know when this is set up?
OhanaUnited
Talk page
15:54, 19 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Creation protection
edit
Latest comment:
17 days ago
47 comments
8 people in discussion
The following discussion is closed.
Please do not modify it.
Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.
A question: is creation protection really supposed to be used after an article has only been created once? I was under the impression that you weren't supposed to use creation protection unless an article had been recreated after being deleted.
Pur
ple
back
pack
89
01:14, 26 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Purplebackpack89
: I'd say the answer very much depends, but at least on this wiki the vast majority of cases, no. Page-creation protection (
protectcreate
) for a single creation can be done if we're
salting
a very obviously out-of-scope page (most often spam pages, though sometimes vandalism too), but never for normal deletions and never for genuine good-faith page creations. //
shb
02:06, 26 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
SHB2000
Ibaman
The problem with creation-protection is that it prevents ANY NON-ADMIN from creating ANY VERSION OF THE PAGE, even a redirect. It should only be used sparingly.
Pur
ple
back
pack
89
21:03, 26 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
That is indeed why it's not supposed to be used in the vast majority of cases (there is also the argument to be made that it shouldn't be made at all, but I won't spill the reason why on-wiki). //
shb
22:24, 26 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Ibaman
I'd still like to see a commitment from you to be more careful about using creation protection in the future.
Pur
ple
back
pack
89
13:22, 31 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
I'd rather declare, in a forceful and willing way, my total commitment to
WV:Manual of Style
WV:Policies
WV:Consensus
. You sound like you're very forcefully motivated. Please chill out. Read
WV:fun
Ibaman
talk
13:37, 31 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Ibaman
Unilaterally deleting and creation-protecting something is NOT consensus, my friend. If I'm forcefully motivated, it's because I'm dismayed by you talking down to me and making questionable calls about creation-protection.
Pur
ple
back
pack
89
14:39, 31 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Ibaman
Hello? Do you understand why creation-protection has drawbacks? Are you able to admit you've sometimes erred in creation protecting? Feels like you don't and won't, and if you don't and won't, I'm not sure you should be an admin with the power to creation-protect.
Pur
ple
back
pack
89
18:09, 3 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
FYI, I was invited to the post, more than a decade ago, after a long and consistent history of clean edits, always in compliance with
WV:Policies
and
WV:Manual of Style
, always discussing things in a very civil manner, never calling names or pointing fingers (i used to SHOUT a lot in the past, it must be said; I learned from IK, GZ, ThunderingTyphoons and Pashley some coolheadness in the way). It's not bragging to say that I earned this community's trust as a janitor, and that I'm the one who's expected to engage in the unpleasant cleaning jobs that no one else would like to undertake. I don't protect pages lightly, I usually don't regret doing it, and it's been a very long time since I last got chewed up by fellow admins for good reason about "admin tool abuse". As a matter of fact, every one of them who inboxed me about these matters here wrote words like "nice job, keep it up, keep it clean".
Your last complaint sounds like you tried to recreate the "Forum (disambiguation)" article, in spite of previous discussion and
WV:Consensus
against it. If so, it would be totally equal to page-creation vandalism, and I would regret even less its protection.
Ibaman
talk
22:08, 4 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
First off, that's a damn slanderous lie, I did NOT try to recreate the Forum article since the discussion. Stop making up pure conjecture. NOW.
Secondly, I don't give two rats about your resume. You don't bat 1.000, you're not some sort of supereditor who gets to ignore criticism, you pat yourself on the back and claim you're superior WAAAAAY too much, and if people really think you're doing a good job, why aren't they saying so in this particular discussion?
I continue to hold to my position that you overuse creation-protection, that it shouldn't be used AT ALL unless an article has been created multiple times, and another editor has largely agreed with me. But you think you can ignore us? You're outvoted 2-1 here.
Pur
ple
back
pack
89
01:16, 5 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Ibaman
, my friend, we admins all know you're a great admin, but we also know we all make mistakes sometimes.
User:Purplebackpack89
has a long record of constructive contributions. Wouldn't it be best to say you may have goofed and move on, so that cooler heads may prevail?
Ikan Kekek
talk
02:59, 5 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Purplebackpack wrote about me that "it feels like you're looking for excuses to have as LITTLE information as possible", which is demonstrably false. And they refused to retract that claim. Now they complain that Ibaman has written "Your last complaint sounds like you tried to recreate the "Forum (disambiguation)" article". If Purple isn't going to treat other editors civilly, they shouldn't demand such treatment from Ibaman.
Ground Zero
talk
03:08, 5 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Purplebackpack has real grievances. Some other users would react a lot more intemperately under similar circumstances.
Ikan Kekek
talk
03:34, 5 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Two things can be true at the same time. I don't agree with
Purplebackpack89
's accusation towards GZ and think they should drop that stick and apologise to GZ for that, but this grievance of theirs is
very
understandable given no credible explanation has actually been made regarding the protection, why it's appropriate, or whether it actually falls in line with the
protected pages policy
. I don't want this to turn into a
U4C case
, but given the way this discussion is going I wouldn't be surprised if it did. //
shb
03:49, 5 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Yeah, I agree. It's patently untrue that GZ wants as little information as possible on this site. But I think we can all understand why Purplebackpack's emotions would be a little raw right now.
Ikan Kekek
talk
03:53, 5 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Purplebackpack seems to have a lot of grievances, and not to be tolerant of others' opinions, so I have trouble taking an interest in their complaint against Ibaman.
Ground Zero
talk
04:02, 5 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
You continually talk about me in hyperbole, GZ, almost to the point of bad faith. STOP.
Ikan Kekek
if you expect me to apologize to GZ, he also needs to apologize back for how he's treated me of late
Pur
ple
back
pack
89
04:19, 5 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
(edit conflict) I understand that, but I think it is a mere basic expectation that any user can expect that admins follow site policy and back their actions with policy when asked, both per
our policy
and the
UCoC (s3.2)
. That's what prevents us from sysops potentially being seen as "superusers" (for the lack of a better term). //
shb
04:20, 5 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Agreed,
SHB2000
. What is particularly galling about this discussion is Ibaman's tone evokes belief that he should be treated as a superuser.
Pur
ple
back
pack
89
04:24, 5 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Purplebackpack hasn't complained about my position that "Forum" should not be recreated. But guys, you should really both acknowledge that both of you are acting in good faith. As I said, GZ's long record puts the lie to the idea that he's trying to eliminate as much content as possible. That's a really absurd idea!
Ikan Kekek
talk
04:34, 5 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
I will acknowledge that GZ has a record of adding content, and that my comments should not be construed to apply to anything beyond that particular discussion. I was frustrated that content I added in good faith was removed.
Pur
ple
back
pack
89
04:43, 5 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
SHB, I believe the jargon you're looking for is
meatball:VestedContributor
WhatamIdoing
talk
16:32, 5 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
the part about "I may have goofed" was addressed days ago, and that didn't stop the user of complaining hotly about being mistreated. I really have problems communicating with such users. I get stuck finding the tone and cooling the vocabulary. I really lack the diplomatic skills other admins here possess abundantly, and I'm sorry about it.
The truth is, if you get to write in a travel guide wiki that works as a community, you cannot avoid having your words changed and sometimes erased, that happens to every one of us, no exceptions. Getting angry and arguing over it is simply useless and counterproductive. It's actually very rare to see this kind of verbal battle developing here in our travel guide, in this scale, with this length.
I'm actually taking more time off than usual, for Wikivoyage's and my own peace of mind. I haven't seen the
Glendale (California)
article, where a big complete list of streets and bus lines was added, and consensus for its removal was consolidating. I won't participate, because of a rather long list of reasons. May cooler heads prevail.
Ibaman
talk
13:18, 5 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
I have explained to Purplebackpack why "content added in good faith" may he removed in
this discussion
, but they don't seem interested in learning how Wikivoyage works, and is again throwing accusations of "bad faith" against other editors, sorry: "almost to the point of bad faith".
Ground Zero
talk
13:26, 5 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
just as a reminder, we have policy against
treating Wikivoyage as a battleground
Ibaman
talk
14:38, 5 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Ibaman
and @
Ground Zero
: You bear some responsibility for this devolving into a battleground, in that the two of you are willing to interject criticisms of me that haven't the least to do with creation-protection (Glendale was never creation-protected, for example) Above I admitted I erred in saying GZ looks for excuses to delete stuff, so you've GOT to move on with that, and you've GOT to stop making these exaggerated statements like "I don't know how Wiktionary works". And, Ibaman, this discussion could've been over DAYS ago if you reflected on your use of creation protection, but, for whatever reason, you REFUSED to do so
Ikan Kekek
SHB2000
How do I get Ibaman and GZ on the right track here? How do I get them to stop acting like supereditors who don't treat me as an equal?
Pur
ple
back
pack
89
15:09, 5 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
My friend, I don't speak for other admins. I understand that your point is not that you are still arguing that the deleted content must be restored but that you'd like an apology for essentially treating you as a vandal. And my suggestion to everyone is to drop the discussion and move on. There are many times in life when you can't make other people say or do what you want them to. It looks to me like you've gotten acknowledgements that you've acted in good faith in your edits, even if there's some pushback to your tone in discussions. And I have to get ready for work. Life goes on.
Ikan Kekek
talk
15:43, 5 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
I admit to being liberal about creation-protection of articles and usernames. Many of them read like "Ibaman is a monster", "Ibaman must die", and worse. There were many honoring IK, GZ, Pashley and others in a similar manner. I try to exercise my tasks always adhering to policy and consensus. It seems, in the end, I protected no valid article in any wrong way or shape or form, and this discussion has reached a natural dead end. Let's go back to building a great online travel guide.
Ibaman
talk
16:33, 5 April 2026 (UTC)
of
Reply
I do not agree that I have treated Purplebackpack as a vandal. They have made further accusations about my behaviour that are unwarranted, but I won't respond, and agree with ending this discussion as it is not achieving anything.
Ground Zero
talk
16:59, 5 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Just for the record, I did not accuse you of treating Purplebackpack as a vandal. I've got no beef with you, and I'm happy we can move on.
Ikan Kekek
talk
17:16, 5 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Ibaman
Natural dead end? The natural dead end here would be for you to commit to using creation protection less liberally, and you don't seem willing to do that.
Pur
ple
back
pack
89
17:41, 6 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
I don't think I have anything to say other than what IK said (whose thought align most with mine). //
shb
21:40, 5 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Can you believe Purplebackpack actually and literally accused me of blocking them? Their imagination was running really wild. I'm relieved to see they apparently ceased and desisted. What a joyful day. Happy editings to everybody in Wikivoyage.
Ibaman
talk
15:01, 6 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
What I said was that I feared you would, not that you actually DID it. And I still do, because I don't trust you to act consistently responsibly. Also rather disturbing that it's "joyful" to you.
Ikan Kekek
SHB2000
: I'm very concerned about the precedent that is set by this discussion, and by GZ's and Ibaman's behavior. a) Ibaman never reflected on his use of creation protection, never admitted wrongdoing and
here
even denies using creation protection at all, b) Ibaman and GZ used this discussion to drag my name through the dirt with things that hadn't the least to do with creation-protection, and c) their doing so kicked up so much drama to prevent any resolution of the initial topic at hand.
How are we supposed to be a serious Wikiproject when our admins behave in such a manner?
Pur
ple
back
pack
89
17:36, 6 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
oh, do you still believe yourself to be injusticed? Sift through the protection log and show me ONE proper article that you can't edit because I protected it. Redirects and non-articles don't count. Just one. I'll be here waiting for you to show everybody this precious prize, and what a lying sack of excrement Ibaman is as an admin. go on and do it. I'm waiting.
Ibaman
talk
17:47, 6 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Here is Ibaman's protection log
Pur
ple
back
pack
89
17:51, 6 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
The additional problem,
Ibaman
is that you've personalized this issue, making it about me instead of about articles. If an article is creation-protected, ANY VERSION OF IT, including versions that aren't the least bit similar to the deleted content, can't be created by ANY NON-ADMIN. Creation-protection is very serious stuff.
Pur
ple
back
pack
89
17:54, 6 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
ohhhh, you can't or won't locate any unproper blocking stance in my protection log? ohhh, how convenient, how confortable, eh. Ever heard about "onus of proof"? You called me a bad, sloppy admin in the community's face. Now you must back up your accusations with solid, undeniable evidence. I'm waiting.
Ibaman
talk
17:59, 6 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Remember that
you deleted and creation-protected Père Lachaise
. A vote for undeletion found the deletion and creation-protection to be in error. Also, you should reflect on your tone in this discussion, and you haven't addressed my concern that you've overly personalized it.
Pur
ple
back
pack
89
18:03, 6 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Also remember that above I posited that using creation-protection was inappropriate unless an article had been created twice.
Forum
had only been created once when it was creation-protected, as had
Baja California (disambiguation)
Estonija
had only been created once when it was creation-protected, and was also tagged inappropriately as vandalism when it was a redirect from misspelling likely created in good-faith.
Pur
ple
back
pack
89
18:06, 6 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
These are redirects and non-articles, which don't count, just as I said. No proper, valid article is protected against editing in Wikivoyage, and you made us spend much time and energy here over what's basically a non-existent issue.
Ibaman
talk
18:39, 6 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────
This discussion is no longer constructive. If any editor wishes to ask for an administrator to be be discplined, they should make a formal proposal in
Wikivoyage:User rights nominations
, rather than in the pub. This proposal should include references to policies that were violated by the administrator or administrators in question, and links to the specific words they wrote or actions they took that violate these policies.
Ground Zero
talk
18:11, 6 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Agreed. @Purplebackpack89, time to drop the personal aspects of the discussion unless you would like to nominate any admins for desysopping at
WV:User rights nominations
. If you'd like to discuss creation protection more, please do so without personal invective at
Wikivoyage talk:Protected page policy
Ikan Kekek
talk
18:19, 6 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Ikan Kekek
Your "personal invective" warning seems a trifle one-sided. @
Ibaman
and @
Ground Zero
also warrant personal invective warnings.
Pur
ple
back
pack
89
18:46, 6 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
In my view, this discussion has gone on far too long & the pub thread should now be killed.
GZ & Ikan have it exactly right in their most recent comments. I'd add that, while a de-sysop nomination is certainly possible, it would be pointless, almost certain to be dismissed out-of-hand in this case,
Pashley
talk
21:51, 6 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
I agree with Pashley. If creation protection is preventing an editor from creating an article, they can create a draft article in their user space and then come here and request that the protection is removed so the article can be moved. Endless discussion of a minor issue just wastes time.
AlasdairW
talk
22:23, 6 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
seizing the moment to agree and clarify about "Baja California (disambiguation)". We have
Baja California
, the state, geographically inside
Baja Peninsula
, the region. A disambiguation is unneeded per
obvious
and
WV:Tone#Don't assume the reader is an idiot
. As for "Estonija", "Latvija" and such, there was a time here when I could watch, on the recent changes, these alternative transliterations being instantaneously deleted, never by me, as unneeded, and started protecting them to avoid the trouble of deleting them again and again. Whenever I perform this type of cleaning chore, I usually use the tag "page-creation vandalism" on autopilot, seldom stopping to reflect that this might cause any kind of offence. That's the whole story.
Ibaman
talk
Ibaman
talk
23:21, 6 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Saying goodbye to the blue box on the
Main Page
edit
Latest comment:
19 days ago
15 comments
11 people in discussion
I don't exactly think it's controversial to say that the blue box on the
Main Page
has served its due time. For one, having a blue background reeks of very late-2000s/early 2010s era interface, which gives this site a very dated look, and very much not in line with broader more modern website trends which have been heading towards a more minimalist design. As seen in my screenshot on the left (from Safari on an iPhone, iOS 26.4), the indenting on the blue boxes on
Vector 2022
(which is what all logged out users will see) tips over to the left ever so slightly, which is a
really
bad look for the Main Page.
I've tried to redesign the look based on
w:abstract:
's design. On mobile, it eliminates the issue of the indents, and looks a lot more cleaner in my opinion based on a demo I've made at
User:SHB2000/revamped main
. Works well on both vector 2010 and vector 2022, optimised for both light and dark mode (using the help of Gemini). If there are no objections, I'll go ahead and change the design of the page.
//
shb
06:34, 26 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
That looks good. I have looked at it both logged in and logged out on a desktop. I don't think blue text on a pale blue background is a good idea, except for making the text less prominent (equivalent of fine print).
AlasdairW
talk
10:50, 26 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Support
text on coloured background is more difficult to read for those with visual impairments. We should strive for accessibility.
Ground Zero
talk
11:06, 26 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Support
It really looks good compared to the existing text on coloured background.
Sbb1413
(he) (
talk
contribs
13:00, 26 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Support
: looks great!
Bluecoordinationfine
talk
15:27, 26 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Support
: Thank you for improving this! Should the
WV:PF
link in the "Get involved" heading be preserved?
Gerode
talk
16:01, 26 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Good catch –
done. //
shb
00:36, 27 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Support
always nice to see new design elements, can't wait to see how it looks on desktop. --
Ypsilon
talk
17:56, 26 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Support
- I already insisted on getting an upgrade to Main Page elements when I picked up mending Vector 2022, but never got to
{{
Bottomboxes
}}
. I'm glad you've picked this up! I do think a little touch of colour is lacking though. I wonder, would it work if the border for Discover were Wikivoyage blue
#006699
and Get Involved were Wikivoyage green
#339966
Wauteurz
talk
20:59, 26 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Wauteurz
Ypsilon
Special:PermaLink/5238380
would be how it'll look with the Wikivoyage colours. On one hand, I do like that it reflects the Wikivoyage theme, but on the other hand I'm conflicted because the box colours feel a tiny bit distracting (especially on dark mode). //
shb
22:41, 26 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Actually, ignore the permalink above, here's a screenshot of how it looks for me. //
shb
22:45, 26 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Support
. I would want to take a closer look at the newly proposed code but am very much in favor of removing the blue background! I don't think it is accessible in current form?
Jdlrobson
talk
19:25, 27 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Support
for a change.
2026-69216-3
talk
08:50, 28 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Given the overwhelming clear consensus to implement this,
Done
. Part 2 of the revamps (to the sister project section) can be expected sometime in April. //
shb
02:03, 29 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Looks good! I didn't hate the blue box, but this looks much better. I'd support part 2 also.
--Comment by
Selfie City
talk
) (
contributions
02:47, 5 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Social Media not being a reliable source
edit
Latest comment:
28 days ago
6 comments
5 people in discussion
Why is social media not a reliable source in general, and to begin with? What happens if you use them in articles?
2026-18962-24
talk
17:19, 26 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Use them how? Give an example of what you're thinking of.
Ikan Kekek
talk
18:02, 26 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
~2026-18962-24
Ikan Kekek
Is reliable source even a term on this project?
Pur
ple
back
pack
89
21:05, 26 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
it isn't lol. //
shb
23:55, 26 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
We do link to social media pages (like Facebook) when a small business (cafe etc) uses that as its only online presence. Such a page that appears to be created by the business, is only a little less reliable than a regular webpage for the business. The important thing is to check that the information makes sense, and that there is other evidence of the business existing.
AlasdairW
talk
00:06, 27 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Oh for sure – but usually only FB (I think there was consensus against Instagram links sometime back). But "reliable source" isn't a term we use here. //
shb
00:11, 27 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Adding messaging info to listings like Whatsapp or Telegram
edit
Latest comment:
24 days ago
6 comments
5 people in discussion
Hi
Lately I've been seeing more and more restaurants and other places that offer Whatsapp as a contact system, in addition to mail or telephone.
Finally today I found a Climbing guide which only offers Whatsapp or Telegram as contact for customers. Not address or Telephone. Additionally they offer email or web. ( and looks like a real business
!)
Is there any policy about messaging applications to be included in the listings?? Any chance to add a new field (or fields) in the listings to include Messaging??
I'm afraid times are changing. I never filled the FAX or Tollfree fields. Also many times I find 2 telephone numbers, the fixed line and the mobile, and I always doubt which one include in the listing. Also many times the business says you can use the mobile for messaging.
Mmorell
talk
17:58, 27 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Honestly, yep... whatsapp/signal/instagram/... would be much more important these days for most businesses than fax/phone, at least outside Germany
:) I seriously doubt more than 1% of our visitors book hotels by phone... Perhaps we can improve the templates a bit there... --
andree
18:42, 27 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
I saw a travel magazine recently that recommended contacting hotels by phone before booking (e.g., to make sure the hotel existed).
WhatamIdoing
talk
19:22, 27 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
This makes sense to me. I've also had this no-phone-number situation with Line and WeChat in some regions.
Gerode
talk
20:22, 27 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Whatsapp, Telegram, Facebook and Instagram are proprietary platforms, in contrast to universal communication protocols such as e-mail, the World Wide Web, and telefax. Wikimedia projects have been wary of endorsing proprietary platforms; but they can be considered for individual services which offer no other contact information. /
Yvwv
talk
14:08, 28 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
I agree with the fact that are private services. But reality is that in Spain whatsapp is almost universal. Event government has whatsapp lines for servicing people. And a policy explaining when and how to use those comunication systems may be useful for colaborators. On the example I mentioned at the begining I write the whatsapp contact in the content section of the listing, but I don't know if it's right or not. If there is no guidance every one will use his own way and thats not good for standarizing data.
Mmorell
talk
07:16, 30 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Upcoming Wikimedia Café meetup regarding the
the 2026-2027 Wikimedia Foundation Annual Plan
edit
Latest comment:
25 days ago
2 comments
2 people in discussion
Hello! There will be a
Wikimedia Café
meetup on
Saturday, 11 April 2026 at 14:00 UTC
timestamp conversion tool
), focusing on the
the 2026-2027 Wikimedia Foundation Annual Plan
. The featured guests will be
Kelsi Stine-Rowe
(senior manager,
Movement Communications
, Wikimedia Foundation), and
Sam Walton
(senior product manager,
Moderator Tools
, Wikimedia Foundation).
In addition to this Café session,
several additional meetings regarding the Annual Plan are listed on the Collaboration page
, and you may participate on the
talk page
This Café meetup will be approximately two hours long. Attendees may choose to attend only for a part. Please see the Café page for more information, including
how to register
↠Pine
05:37, 29 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
If you're thinking about attending: That's 10:00AM Saturday in New York, 7:00AM Saturday in California, 10:00PM Saturday in Perth, and 2:00AM Sunday in Auckland.
WhatamIdoing
talk
19:17, 29 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
FYI: Ticket Scam Cost the Louvre $12 Million, Investigators Say
edit
Latest comment:
25 days ago
1 comment
1 person in discussion
Justin (
ko
vf
07:47, 29 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
FYI: This 661-mile Scenic Route Was Just Named the 'Road Trip of the Year'—and It Includes National Parks and the 'Loneliest Road'
edit
Latest comment:
25 days ago
1 comment
1 person in discussion
Justin (
ko
vf
08:24, 29 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Removal of "Places of worship" from Bangalore
edit
Latest comment:
19 days ago
13 comments
8 people in discussion
A user named
Darrrrmilk
keeps removing the "Places of worship" section of
Bangalore/West Central
. Initially they say that they "disagree with making a section for places of warship [sic]" without providing a reason. So, I reverted the removal. However, they removed it again, saying, "But these aren't necessarily "places to visit" it is religion-exclusive". The relevant policy
WV:POW
says,
Some cities and rural areas have so many places of worship, such as churches, synagogues, mosques and temples, that it is impractical to list them all. Reasons to list a religious site could be that it
has guided tours
gives service in a foreign or minority language
has historical or architectural importance
is the city's only, largest or oldest place of worship for a religion
or
any other distinction which makes it interesting for a visitor, other than religious services that are typical of the area.
There is of course more leeway in articles with fewer listings in general, or where a certain type of place of worship has "rarity value", but don't give a 'See' listing to the fiftieth church in a quiet bedroom suburb when it looks as cookie-cutter as the one next door. [...] On the other hand, houses of worship that travellers may find useful in a religious or spiritual sense can be listed in the 'Cope' section of a city article. This would be especially useful if there's one main mosque in the city in question, or if there is only one church representing a certain Christian denomination in the area. The listing should make clear that it is a place of worship, not of tourism. And remember, if you're a member of the clergy or congregation of a church you're adding a listing for, the rules of
Don't tout
still apply.
I have preserved the removed section at
User:Sbb1413/BLR
, and started this discussion to avoid edit warring on this.
Sbb1413
(he) (
talk
contribs
18:08, 29 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Of course, I value the local knowledge of the user, as I'm a mere outsider who has never visited Bengaluru (the name I prefer off-wiki) but want to live there. However, I find many of the well-known places of worship in BLR to be useful for secular travellers, including the ones deleted by the user.
Sbb1413
(he) (
talk
contribs
18:12, 29 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
I happen to like walking around old church buildings and graveyards, so of course I think religious-related sites are valid tourist sites.
The first listing that was removed is a historical church and the description says it "attracts people of all faiths", so these are not exclusive to a single religion. However, I think that sites that are exclusive to a single religion should be acceptable (though probably in the ==Cope== section). For example, if you're an Arabic speaker traveling in the US, even if you are personally 100% secular atheist in terms of religious orientation, the local mosque is your best bet at finding another Arabic speaker should you ever need one. They can also be good sources of information for any religion-specific needs, like finding a halal or kosher restaurant.
WhatamIdoing
talk
20:16, 29 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Any house of worship that meets the criteria listed above can and should be listed
Pur
ple
back
pack
89
21:07, 29 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Because I got pinged here is my answer:
While some of the attractions listed such as the
Hudson Memorial Church
say that it attracts people of all faith but the vast majority of the temples do not, they do seem more of a place to actually "worship" or "pray" than just a historical attraction to visit. I may be wrong so if I am please feel free to correct me.
Darrrrmilk
talk
21:13, 29 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Put the section back.
Some of these are worthwhile for the architecture or history, hence of interest to at least some visitors.
This site is not just for tourists, though, so it is also worth listing places where visitors might want to attend services -- a Christian church with services in a European language, a mosque with Urdu, etc. In these cases, the language should be mentioned.
Pashley
talk
22:09, 29 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Agree with Pashley here. //
shb
22:45, 29 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
I know that this wiki is not just for tourists, I am just saying that a section for "worships" should not belong in a guide especially under the "see" section because like I already mentioned, it is more "religion-exclusive"
Darrrrmilk
talk
02:46, 30 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
If it's listed under ==See==, that means that someone thought these were appropriate attractions for non-religious reasons (e.g., architecture or history or art).
Separately, a travel guide should also include information about actual religious content for religious travelers. Religious travelers should be treated the same as other groups of travelers who have predictable needs or interests. We should have content for families, for LGBTQ travelers, for low-income travelers, for disabled travelers, for short-term travelers, for long-term travelers, for holidaymakers, for emergency travelers – and on exactly the same basis, for religious travelers. It doesn't matter if religion is the purpose of the trip (e.g.,
Hajj
Camino de Santiago
Rome
), if it is particularly important to the person (e.g., someone who attends religious services every day and prefers to keep doing that while out of town), or if it is a place to connect with others (e.g., a long-term traveler trying to find other people from their home culture). We should have some content for everyone. I assume that most people don't attend religious services while traveling, but we shouldn't discriminate against the minority that does.
WhatamIdoing
talk
21:35, 30 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
How is removing it discriminating them exactly?
Darrrrmilk
talk
22:18, 30 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
By removing advice relevant to them. However, the listings in the section are only six, which doesn't seem excessive, and the descriptions seem to be written from the perspective of tourists, not worshippers. I don't see the section as problematic. –
LPfi
talk
09:31, 31 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Yes, I wrote the description from the perspective of tourists, as I expect a tourist in BLR would visit them, just like I visited the churches and temples in
Chennai
and
Visakhapatnam
as a tourist.
Sbb1413
(he) (
talk
contribs
09:47, 31 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
I'm not a Hindu, Muslim or Sikh, but visiting Hindu temples, mosques and the Golden Temple on his trip to India with his parents were wonderful, mind-opening experiences for 12-year-old Ikan Kekek. We absolutely should be promoting great places of worship in India and every other country!
Ikan Kekek
talk
05:43, 5 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Notification regarding inactive administrators
edit
Latest comment:
25 days ago
1 comment
1 person in discussion
Please see
Wikivoyage talk:Administrators#Inactive_administrators as of 2026-03
, thanks.
Codename Noreste
talk
02:45, 30 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Breadcrumbing continents into Destinations
edit
Latest comment:
17 days ago
11 comments
5 people in discussion
Despite being an active Wikivoyager for several years, I wonder whether the seven continents (and also
Other destinations
) could be simply breadcrumbed further into
Destinations
, thus rendering the latter a top-level article à la
Itineraries
Phrasebooks
and
Travel topics
. This could fix problems with the country-level articles that can't perfectly belong to any continent, like
Saint Helena, Ascension and Tristan da Cunha
and maybe the
British Indian Ocean Territory
(although it would get breadcrumbed into
Mauritius
eventually as things stand).
Sbb1413
(he) (
talk
contribs
07:50, 30 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
On a side note, this could render
Other destinations
redundant, as it currently acts as a "wastebucket" for extra regions that don't neatly fall into any of the seven continents.
Sbb1413
(he) (
talk
contribs
07:54, 30 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
That would probably be a good thing because this page makes no sense to me.
WikiSeto
talk
11:28, 31 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
I don't like the idea. It makes most breadcrumb trails longer without any real benefit I can see.
Pashley
talk
10:32, 30 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
I was thinking that
Destinations
Asia
> ... >
Chennai
could enable some people to move back to the
Destinations
article instead of searching for "Destinations" explicitly. Yes, searching is common, but there's a reason for breadcrumbs to exist.
Sbb1413
(he) (
talk
contribs
03:48, 31 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
I agree with Pashley.
Ikan Kekek
talk
06:03, 31 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
I thought the
Destinations
article would aid travellers to navigate various destinations, and adding it to the beginning of the breadcrumbs could help them even more. Like they could revert to
Destinations
if they have gone way down the hierarchy, like
Asia
South Asia
India
Southern India
Karnataka
Cauvery Basin
Mysore (district)
Mysore
Sbb1413
(he) (
talk
contribs
06:24, 31 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
The neatly-categorize-everything side of my brain likes this proposal, but I agree that an overloaded breadcrumb is a bad user experience, and it's not clear to me how a perfectly clean hierarchy serves users of the site. Is there a way to suppress "Destinations" in breadcrumbs with more than a couple items, and is that worth the trouble?
The Destinations page looks largely redundant with the Main page. I'm not sure if I prefer making it a robust landing page or a more auxiliary corner for the (increasingly glitchy) article map. I'm hesitant to direct more traffic to it (versus the Main page) in its current state (though I think that is fixable with the same kind of attention SHB2000 is giving to other landing pages).
Gerode
talk
16:47, 31 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
WikiSeto
Pashley
Ikan Kekek
Gerode
While the seven continents may or may not get breadcrumbed into
Destinations
, they can be categorized to
Category:Destinations
without any breadcrumb trail (i.e. with
[[Category:Destinations]]
instead of
{{isPartOf|Destinations}}
), which makes the category tree neat without compromising the breadcrumb trail. Also, the
Other destinations
article is redundant to
Destinations
as the "other destiations" can be listed with the main ones like in
User:Sbb1413/Destinations
Sbb1413
(he) (
talk
contribs
07:34, 6 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
I'm not yet sure on the Category:Destinations plan. It "feels" neat, but it's still not clear to me what problem is solves or what functionality it adds.
I support your plan to merge Other Destinations, I don't see how that page is useful for anything other than bookkeeping. In
User:Gerode/Destinations
, I took your mockup and added more grouping to keep the continents first and foremost, and reduced to two columns to be better on mobile.
Gerode
talk
16:09, 6 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
I'm warming up to Category:Destinations, as a way to get rid of the Other Destinations page: if there's no Other Destinations page then its subpages' breadcrumbs need to point somewhere else, and the Destinations page is a much better target.
Gerode
talk
16:35, 6 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
New user rights nomination
edit
Latest comment:
24 days ago
1 comment
1 person in discussion
Hi everyone, I've nominated Sbb1413 for adminship – please weigh in at
Wikivoyage:User rights nominations#Sbb1413 (sysop)
. Thanks, //
shb
08:32, 30 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Goodbye, Wikinews
edit
Latest comment:
19 days ago
18 comments
7 people in discussion
As per the latest announcement on
the Board of Trustees noticeboard
, Wikinews will be set to read-only from May 4, 2026. Given that it's unlikely there will be any new news articles from now, I've removed the link accordingly on
Template:WikivoyageSister
. //
shb
00:37, 31 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Thanks. I've done the same where I can and made relevant
phab:
tasks. I still have the vain hope that we can come back some day: if Wikivoyage can be adopted, Wikinews could be re-adopted. —
Justin (
ko
vf
06:22, 31 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
There are several proposals to fork it to a new site; at least two groups appear to have plausible proposals, and everyone wants to get the rights to the trademarks (which the WMF has previously refused, but at some level, everything's negotiable).
WhatamIdoing
talk
19:47, 31 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
I don't think we should link non-Wikimedia projects on
{{
WikivoyageSister
}}
, though. //
shb
04:15, 1 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
I agree.
WhatamIdoing
talk
21:20, 1 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
I'm shocked to see this. Why can't we let enough users, to contribute to Wikinews, despite being in a normal state? In my own opinion, Wikinews should be kept active and editable. This project was launched in November 8, 2004, crazy that it lasted for about 22 years!
Are there any WMF projects closed down also in the past, besides Wikinews anyway?
Further beyond, I believe that a lot of users, are active on Wikipedia, Wiktionary, and here in Wikivoyage, rather than the Wikinews as of 2026. To have a feeling, I'm definitely going to miss this project, after it got set permanently to read-only mode. Unfortunately, there are not going to have as many articles or stories reviewed, since I heard from the WMF that this site only had about 2-3 reviewers a month.
2026-69216-3
talk
03:44, 2 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
The only other one is
m:Sep11Wiki
. —
Justin (
ko
vf
04:52, 2 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
More than 100 wikis have been shut down/made read-only over the years. However, AFAIK this is the first time that an entire multilingual content project has been shut down.
WhatamIdoing
talk
19:05, 2 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
It is. —
Justin (
ko
vf
01:32, 3 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
WhatamIdoing
Exactly, the first one for entire multilingual content project to shut down. But do you know another the reason on why did Wikinews shut down? We all read this announcement from the the Board of Trustees noticeboard, and I seen these responses that they consider migrating to Miraheze. Although there were some feedback, I believe that there should be more users contributing to Wikinews, since there are not much them active on this project.
2026-69216-3
talk
21:48, 3 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
This is the reason that Wikinews shut down: The Wikinews project was a failure.
Success would have looked like:
Many writers
Many new articles
Prompt reviews
Many readers
What they had was:
Few writers
Few new articles
Slow and unfinished reviews
Few readers
These are wonderful people. They worked very hard. But unfortunately, it did not succeed. Not everything we try is successful.
WhatamIdoing
talk
23:13, 3 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Koavf
WhatamIdoing
Thank you. Having few writers, news articles, and readers, is very shocking to me, since how much news stories and articles, can be accessible throughout the Internet under Google Search Engine, such as CNN, BBC, NBC News, The New York Times, Daily Mail, Voyage, Vox, Wired, NPR, SFGate, ESPN, USA Today, Wall Street Journal, New York Post, Huffpost, Daily News, and Forbes, which are read by millions of people.
I don't understand the lower view count for Wikinews articles, despite being a free project since 2004.
I guess that this project was a failure, and need to migrate to Miraheze.
2026-69216-3
talk
03:07, 5 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Wikinews
edit
Hi all.
The sister project Wikinews was scheduled to close in May. For context, each new page on that wiki is a news report and a few days after the event, unlike Wikipedia, it gets read-only and no longer editable. There were user engagement issues because it was hard to get new pages approved when there are only 2 or 3 reviewers active and news is not approved if it is over a week old , and also users lack awareness who else is from their own continent, do not make meaningful connections.
Main complaint from WMF is "Wikipedia does such a great job at news writing anyway" though I personally do not agree with it, their page format is not a news report as it stays editable forever and one page actually is an encyclopedic history page and not about one event. plus Wikinews allows photo essays about super local events which Wikipedia does not. I think they are all valuable additions to meet the content freedom and knowledge freedom mission of the Wikimedia movement.
Link:
And I am wondering if it would be suitable to make a News: namespace here and, unlike what Wikinews did, try to aggressively make visual maps of where the events are, as well as where the users are from (they add a point on a map and there is a map of all events, and another map with all users). Now with the Kartographer feature this may be visually appealing and doable from programming point of view.
Maybe that helps users to connect better and also then Wikinews does not have to move to external site like miraheze. For wikivoyage this could mean a bit more traffic and maybe more users expanding the pages about travel destinations.
Main software difference is usage of FlaggedRevs in that namespace and the volunteer peer reviewers would need to apply for access to be allowed to approve or decline page revisions.
this was not yet discussed within Wikinews itself and I am just wondering what you think.
Hoping this is helpful and you can support or give some ideas.
Many thanks.
Gryllida
talk
09:17, 31 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
I'm not sure WV is the best place for generic news. Sure, most of the time news is about some place on the Earth, but likely there aren't enough people here (interested) to do any significant reviews? Thus probably quite a bit of politics stuff (which we seem to actively avoid around here) would flow in...
Maybe if we agreed that it's only news about local events (festivals, happenings, temporary exhibitions) and not "random events" (protests, wars, natural disasters...)? --
andree
09:46, 31 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
That might makes sense if local events like festivals, happenings and temporary exhibitions are covered here, and we already cover international ones like
Olympic Games
FIFA World Cup
World's Fair
, etc. Protests, wars and disasters may be covered, but they should be restricted to official advisories, which directly affect travel.
Sbb1413
(he) (
talk
contribs
09:55, 31 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
I agree that posting news here is a big stretch, but for what it's worth, about a half-dozen Wikipedias host their own local version of Wikinews. —
Justin (
ko
vf
11:13, 31 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Last I heard, the WMF will not install FlaggedRevisions on any more wikis, so if that's a requirement, then this idea is doomed.
WhatamIdoing
talk
19:46, 31 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Gryllida
Goodbye, Wikinews! We will miss you.
2026-69216-3
talk
03:45, 2 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
FYI: The 27 Most Beautiful Places in the World
edit
Latest comment:
20 days ago
3 comments
3 people in discussion
Justin (
ko
vf
02:29, 31 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Interesting list, thanks. It's a little funny that they call the aurora borealis an "astrological light show", though.
Ikan Kekek
talk
06:02, 31 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Read this article, looks fascinating to me.
2026-69216-3
talk
05:18, 4 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
pagebanner vandalism
edit
Latest comment:
21 days ago
7 comments
6 people in discussion
I'm seeing a weird type of vandalism on the pagebanner for
Yucatec Maya phrasebook
. The page displays with a red "For Sale" band on the right side, yet I don't see anything in the page source that would do that and I don't see that band in the jpg file that's on commons, so I'm scratching my head wondering how the heck somebody
did
that (and how can I fix it)? Any of y'all seen something like this before?
Mrkstvns
talk
20:48, 31 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
This is
deliberate
by
User:Andree.sk
as a humor article. —
Justin (
ko
vf
21:43, 31 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Okay, thanks! I guess I wasn't thinking about March Fools Day pranks. Cheers,
Mrkstvns
talk
22:46, 31 March 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Too bad there's only one WV for the whole world! --
andree
04:31, 1 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
It links to
World Sale
WhatamIdoing
talk
21:21, 1 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
I have to say I think this might be my favorite Apr 1 prank we've done so far. It's different, unconventional and nothing like what we've seen on this site (and we did get a few global/enwiki users join in on the World Sale too). //
shb
22:12, 2 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Yep, that is clearly April fools by the way.
2026-69216-3
talk
01:25, 3 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Action Required: Update templates/modules for electoral maps (Migrating from P1846 to P14226)
edit
Latest comment:
19 days ago
3 comments
3 people in discussion
Hello everyone,
This is a notice regarding an ongoing data migration on Wikidata that may affect your election-related templates and Lua modules (such as
Module:Itemgroup/list
).
The Change:
Currently, many templates pull electoral maps from Wikidata using the property
P1846
, combined with the qualifier
P180
Q19571328
We are migrating this data (across roughly 4,000 items) to a newly created, dedicated property:
P14226
What You Need To Do:
To ensure your templates and infoboxes do not break or lose their maps, please update your local code to fetch data from
P14226
instead of the old
P1846
P180
structure. A
list of pages
was generated using Wikimedia Global Search.
Deadline:
We are temporarily retaining the old data on
P1846
to allow for a smooth transition. However, to complete the data cleanup on Wikidata, the old
P1846
statements will be removed after
May 1, 2026
. Please update your modules and templates before this date to prevent any disruption to your wiki's election articles.
Let us know if you have any questions or need assistance with the query logic. Thank you for your help!
ZI Jony
using
MediaWiki message delivery
talk
17:11, 3 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Andyrom75
Are you able to help us out with this? Not entirely sure what needs to be done here. //
shb
22:49, 3 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
SHB2000
, there were two pages affected by the above problem.
One was a sandbox that I've just deleted.
The other one is
Template:RegionTasks
but the only thing I've fixed was a redirect in
Template:Catscancall
to speed up the output.
ZI Jony
, I suppose that in Template:RegionTasks, there is one or more link to a query that should use P14226. Since I'm not familiar with this template nor with PetScan, can you tell me which is/are the one(s) to patch?
Thanks,
Andyrom75
talk
07:24, 4 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Missing Routebox
edit
Latest comment:
19 days ago
2 comments
2 people in discussion
I just created
Cavinti
, but after several edits my routebox still won't show up even after I copy templates from other articles.
Borgenland
talk
06:19, 4 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Borgenland
, fixed.
Andyrom75
talk
07:26, 4 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Listing Browser (new feature)
edit
Latest comment:
18 days ago
4 comments
4 people in discussion
Hi all, at
Listing Browser
you can find an experimental tool that we could put somewhere. It's something like the 'nearby articles' that we already have, but this one also does fuzzy search (the string doesn't have to exactly match) and shows listings (plus articles) on the map. Right now it all works 'locally' within the browser, and the listing data is ~1 month old and needs manual update. If we'd agree to have this, maybe we can move it to wiki toolforge (same as poimap2), to have it somehow automatically working, but I have 0 experience with that ATM. I use it for mainly two things in the past months:
If I want to put an listing somewhere, but need to first find the related article (e.g. "eiffel", "Trevi, Roma" or "Most, Prague")
To populate quickly the Trip Planner. You can drag'n'drop the POIs from the Listing Browser search results to it...
Comments welcome... If it's unwanted, I'll just keep it to myself locally, no problem
:) --
andree
06:56, 5 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Andree.sk
: having just tested this out (with a few POIs from
Vienna
and
Uluru
), this is amazing – this is the kind of thing that I think even logged out users can benefit from (as in, have a bot periodically update the listings, have the tool in some kind of projectspace page, and link it on the main page). //
shb
07:07, 5 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Wow! This should be featured prominently!
Gerode
talk
15:41, 5 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Yup, that has the ability to be useful, when searching for destinations, or places to visit for travel.
2026-69216-3
talk
21:44, 5 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Article/Wikivoyage blanking by unregistered/new user
edit
Latest comment:
17 days ago
3 comments
2 people in discussion
I'm trying to remove the group= from markers on the Appalachian Trail article, and instead add coordinates to the mapframes so they show up. I'm not blanking the page, but I am removing a lot of "text". Is this a universal rule?
Blamegroovy
talk
21:32, 6 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
I would urge caution in removing the "group=" parameter from the markers in
Appalachian Trail
. The marker numbering doesn't work when there are more than 99 of the same marker, so the groups may have been added to address this. I suggest that you outline the changes that you want to make on
Talk:Appalachian Trail
, perhaps with a small example, so that editors familiar with that article can comment. Then after a few days, make the changes in small steps, so that you don't trigger the filter which detects a large amount of text being removed.
AlasdairW
talk
22:09, 6 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
It's close, but there don't seem to be 99 of the same marker. They're linked to the map frame with group=, but that seems to have broken at some point. I can apply the changes stepwise? It's always possible to revert them afterwards!
Blamegroovy
talk
22:23, 6 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Blue-linking every county in the United States
edit
Latest comment:
13 days ago
26 comments
7 people in discussion
I'd like to try to do that. If I have to create redirects, which is better?
Redirecting to the county seat if it has an article (esp. one that covers its environs), or
Redirecting to a regional article that covers multiple counties.
Pur
ple
back
pack
89
01:22, 7 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
That depends on where the relevant content is, if anywhere. I think there are some counties that probably aren't worth mentioning, but there's no harm in creating such redirects, providing that the relevant counties are and should be mentioned in the target articles. It's an absolutely huge job, so are you sure it's the best use of your time?
Ikan Kekek
talk
01:54, 7 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
perhaps it's something I'll do a little bit over time
Pur
ple
back
pack
89
02:37, 7 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
In some parts of the US, counties are important for travelers. When I was working on
Iowa#Regions
a few years ago, I decided to list the names of the counties in each region. This IMO has two benefits:
I could figure out which region to stick things in
The traveler can figure out which part of the state the severe weather warning was talking about (because for the most part, the radio reports give the names of the counties, not the names of the individual towns).
I sometimes wonder if the rural parts of that state would be better of treating each county as the bottom-level destination, rather than the towns.
Southwest Iowa
, for example, is
Council Bluffs
and "everything else". We don't have an article for any town in Adams County, but if we wanted to write about that rural area, it would probably make more sense to write about the whole county in one go than to have separate pages for little places like Carbon, Iowa (population: 36) or even
Corning (Iowa)
(population: 1500).
If we didn't want to treat a county as a
rural district
, then I think redirecting the county names to the regions (
Adams County (Iowa)
Southwest Iowa
) would be a good idea. I think that would be appropriate for all of the "flyover states". I'm not certain that it would work as well on the East Coast; someone else will have more information about that.
WhatamIdoing
talk
05:51, 7 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
I think standard way to do this is indeed using the small city template? Probably 'get around' section may not make sense. I did it like that e.g. for
Greater Košice
. Indeed region article listing 10 tiny cities with 1 listing each (if even) is not too traveller friendly IMO. --
andree
07:57, 7 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
The
rural area article template
was created (a few years ago?) for cases where the article isn't primarily about a town. It should suite regions (counties or non-administrative regions) where there are multiple towns, each one not article-worthy on its own, or where the interesting things are outside of towns. Redirects for county names should do no harm, but are probably redundant in the cases where the county is named after the main city. –
LPfi
talk
11:38, 7 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
There are "cow counties" in Texas with populations in the hundreds that cover large areas. How useful would it be to redirect them anywhere?
Ikan Kekek
talk
17:14, 8 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
You could redirect
Loving County (Texas)
to one of the
Big Bend Country
regions (I can't easily tell from the page which one it falls into). I think it would be harmless, but I don't know if it would be particularly important to anyone.
WhatamIdoing
talk
18:44, 8 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────
Big Bend Country
is divided into
Permian Basin
and
Trans-Pecos
subregions (3 articles and 13 articles, respectively). Now it is being divided into counties. What will happen to the existing subregion articles? Is this a parallel regionalization? Is there any need for separate county articles?
Wikivoyage:Region article template
says: "Before you plunge forward creating a region, keep in mind that we only add a new level of regions when there are too many cities or too much content in the existing breakdown. The regional hierarchy at Wikivoyage doesn't always follow the official breakdown—and frequently is much "flatter" than the official breakdown."
Ground Zero
talk
11:09, 9 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Yes. There is a difference between creating articles and creating redirects. I don't see a big problem in redirecting a cow county into the region covering it. Somebody going there as a veterinarian probably has better sources than us, but somebody going to an oil job in Loving (it seems cows aren't the only industry), might have some use of
Midland
, which
Permian Basin
(the redirect target) tells is where to fly. "Loving" doesn't seem to collide with any important destination, so the redirect does no harm. There could be a list of counties in the region article if there aren't too many of them, to ensure readers that the article indeed is a valid redirect target, but I wouldn't give 64-people counties bullets unless they are article-worthy – an agritourism listing doesn't need an Other destination bullet for the county or itself unless it is truly extraordinary. –
LPfi
talk
14:05, 9 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
My position is that if counties aren't mentioned in the target article, a redirect from them is probably unjustified, and that some counties don't merit a mention.
Ikan Kekek
talk
14:32, 9 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Ikan Kekek
What if a county itself isn't mentioned, but a city or other destination within the county IS?
Pur
ple
back
pack
89
16:01, 9 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
That doesn't change anything for me.
Ikan Kekek
talk
17:41, 9 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
While there is a discussion about this underway, I don't understand why Purplebackpack is still creating county articles with almost no information in them. Big Bend Country is already split into two regions, neither of which is too large. Why is it being split into five county articles
in parallel to
the existing regional breakdown? There isn't a need for it. It violates the policy set out in
Wikivoyage:Region article template
Ground Zero
talk
02:14, 10 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
I would not create a separate article for Loving County. But I would mention it somewhere, because tornado warnings are routinely announced by county, and not by each little town separately.
WhatamIdoing
talk
03:38, 10 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
This sums up mostly my thoughts. The county breakdowns may not fit exactly within Wikivoyage's region articles, but mentioning them, alongside with important county information (particularly for emergencies, like tornadoes as you mention), is definitely worthy of inclusion. (and also why I'm not opposed to such redirects) //
shb
03:45, 10 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
If somebody can be expected to visit the county and the area is handled in a region article, then it is good to let the traveller find that region article. They may not know to which of our lower-level regions their destination belongs. While we don't want a long bullet list of 64-people counties, an easy-to-skip paragraph at the end of the region's Regions, Cities, Other destinations or Get around section shouldn't make too much harm, unless it gets very long (and don't burry other information there). Then the county is mentioned and can have the appropriate redirect. This, of course, is for places that the traveller could expect to find by a search (such as tornado warning localities). Such a list is also helpful when trying to find the right article for a POI in a place we don't really cover. –
LPfi
talk
10:00, 10 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Ground Zero
: The only article articles (i.e. not redirects) I created were
Brewster County (Texas)
and
Presidio County (Texas)
, both of which have multiple destinations.
Pur
ple
back
pack
89
21:05, 10 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
User: Purplebackpack89
these destinations are already listed in the existing subregions of
Big Bend Country
. Why are we creating a parallel subdivision of that region? Subdivision of a region should be discussed on the region's talk page first. I have proposed to redirect these two subregions to the existing subregion. Please join the discussion at
Talk:Presidio County (Texas)
Ground Zero
talk
21:36, 10 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
I see now that the other county articles you created were redirects to articles that don't mention the counties. I was wrong in writing that were were "still creating county articles with almost no information in them", and I apologize to you for my mistake.
Ground Zero
talk
21:43, 10 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Another thing that is worth noting: regions are ambiguous; people disagree on the name and boundaries of them. Counties are not: every acre of land in the lower 48 is in exactly one of them.
Pur
ple
back
pack
89
21:46, 10 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
If the regions are ambiguous, we should edit the pages to make them clear. I believe that most sub-state regions (for US) on Wikivoyage are based on county/parish borders anyway.
(Louisiana doesn't have "counties"; they have "parishes", which are approximately the same thing but out of the Napoleonic legal tradition.)
WhatamIdoing
talk
00:14, 11 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
I have added in the definition of Trans-Pecos that has been in use since 1887 from the corresponding Wikipedia article.
Ground Zero
talk
00:50, 11 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
WhatamIdoing
If you're "editing to make them clearer", what you really may be doing is "picking a winner" of how regions are defined. Some counties are in a region by one source and out of it by another. Sources may place the same county in two different regions. Etc. etc.
Pur
ple
back
pack
89
01:04, 11 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
I am editing the subregion articles that have existed
since 2008
to make them clearer. There is no consensus yet to change the subregions. Changing regions or subregions is done through discussion. I have changed many regions, including
Normandy
Brittany
Cornwall
Bourgogne-Franche-Comté
Grand Est
, and
Devon
, and you can read the discussions that I initiated before changing them on each of their talk pages.
Ground Zero
talk
01:15, 11 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Purplebackpack, I don't know if you've had time to read the rules, but
"the regional hierarchy at Wikivoyage doesn't always follow the official breakdown"
. What matters on Wikivoyage is where
we
– not external "sources" – have agreed to draw the line. The reader wins if they find all the information about a rural(ish) county in exactly one (1) place. The reader loses if we scatter the information across multiple pages because "Well, Alice's book says that this county is on the southern edge of the North region, and Bob's book says it's on the northern edge of the South region, and the state tourism board puts it in the Central region, and we wouldn't want to 'take sides'." This is the side we're taking: Make a decision about which one (1) region the county (or fraction of it) is in, and stick everything about that county in the same place.
WhatamIdoing
talk
01:28, 11 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
New feature: Travel Tracker (RfC)
edit
Latest comment:
4 days ago
40 comments
11 people in discussion
IRL procrastination, a random shower thought for better user retention, and 100 or so Gemini prompts (i.e. AI/vibecoding): the results of that led me to create
Wikivoyage:Travel Tracker
. It's a personal tool that any logged in user can use to track which countries they've visited. No scripts that need to be installed, just go to
Special:MyPage/Visited
and check it out for yourself.
Why? Part of what got me hooked into
Jetpunk
was exactly their country tracker. Many people use online sites to track their travels nowadays. The idea is so that casual users – users that occasionally edit Wikivoyage but only ever so often, perhaps choose to use this travel tracker, then are immediately incentivised to update their travel maps after visiting somewhere new, hopefully also updating some actual articles in the process.
The tool still has many teething issues, some that will take time to fix, but it's usable for the most part. Alongside Andree's
trip planner
, I hope this too can be added to the topbar. I'm also planning on perhaps creating a similar tool for US/Indian/Mexican/Brazilian states, depending on how things go. Any feedback/fixes appreciated and welcome.
:)
//
shb
11:43, 9 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
This works well for me at first glance! (I found one glitch, "Bosnia and Herzegovina" isn't shading for me.) It would be fun to have a way to note regions and cities as well, then I'd probably use it as a "Places I've visited"/"Articles I've worked on" section on my User Page.
Gerode
talk
16:28, 9 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
The glitch is unfortunately a long-standing property of kartographer - it here are too many regions, it may not display all of them. Also, sometimes the OSM data import breaks. E.g. Thailand shape is quite broken currently, too. --
andree
19:07, 9 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Yeah for the first I've found usually just a hard cache solves that issue. OSM data import breaks yeah I have no idea how to fix that (similar issue with Singapore too). //
shb
22:47, 9 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Created
phab:T422902
for the Thailand/Singapore issue – seems to be a pretty widespread problem across WMF projects so I def think it's worth this getting looked into by more technical people than us. //
shb
03:59, 10 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Also have given the tracker a little bit of a revamp in terms of style + few finishing touches (like a numerical counter). //
shb
05:05, 10 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
For some reason Q38 (Italy) was added twice for me, using purely the editor. Otherwise, nice work
:-) --
andree
19:05, 9 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Ah, I see the issue (Estonia mistakenly had the Wikidata item of Italy) – fixed!
:) //
shb
22:51, 9 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
It's a fun tool. To make it more interesting, you could also provide an option to break it down by region (state, province, etc.) for the top ten countries by population or area.
Gizza
roam
03:23, 10 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
I've added this tool to the topbar – should work in both vector 2010 and vector 2022, but not skins older than that. //
shb
08:51, 12 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Wow, that feature works, on Temporary Accounts too.
2026-69216-3
talk
12:36, 12 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Since temporary accounts only lasts for 90 days from initial creation, @
~2026-69216-3
you may want to create an account soon because your current temporary account will expire by the end of this month. As for the tool itself, I noticed that your shaded countries don't show up on my end. On the broader picture, I propose that we limit this tool to registered accounts. Otherwise we will potentially have tonnes of abandoned Temporary Account map pages that people can't access after 3 months.
OhanaUnited
Talk page
04:45, 13 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
I'd go further and say that I don't think temporary accounts should be able to create userspace pages at all for the same reason you mention. Maybe I'll start a separate discussion for that sometime later. But yeah @
~2026-69216-3
in your case, would recommend doing that (and then perhaps moving your map to your userspace under a registered account). //
shb
06:17, 13 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
If they can't create a User: space page, then they'll have a harder time telling us some things that we want to know (ordinary user page content, like languages spoken), and they won't be able to create a sandbox for testing, which could lead to making more mistakes in the mainspace.
Also, at the moment, this is not a big problem.
Almost none are being created
, and
only 14 exist in total
When we reach the point of having, say, 100 or 500 or some other large number of such pages, I think we could have a generous deletion policy for User: pages, but I don't think we need a wholesale ban. By "generous", I mean that if it's more than, say, a year old and just test edits (or actually problematic in some way), then any admin should feel free to delete it. I do not mean that an admin marks their calendar to search and delete all User: pages because it just annoys the admin's sense of tidiness that
those
contributors were allowed to create pages in the User: space.
WhatamIdoing
talk
16:41, 13 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Hmm that's true, you do have a point especially because "Draft:" isn't a namespace here. I'll try to think of how else we could solve that issue. //
shb
21:52, 13 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
That is okay to me.
2026-69216-3
talk
00:40, 14 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Still any particular reason why you haven't just created an account btw? //
shb
00:42, 14 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
For me, I have a preference. I would rather edit as temporary user, other than creating the registered or named account. I do not plan to stick around as much in the future.
2026-69216-3
talk
20:32, 14 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
I didn't propose to restrict Temporary Accounts from creating any "User:" pages. I am only proposing restriction on TAs creating the "/visited" pages because they can't stick around past 90 days. From a technical standpoint, is there a way to display a message only to TAs that "hey, you can use this tool locally but if you want to truly save it or show it to friends, you need to register an account"?
OhanaUnited
Talk page
15:06, 14 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
I went to see if I could embed this on my main User page. Could you add an easy way to suppress the checkboxes, maybe by a flag on the VisitedMap template? Not only would that make this map embeddable, it would make it harder for me to check boxes on other people's pages!
Gerode
talk
21:14, 12 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Gerode
: You should be able to now embed this on your userpage (just by transcluding
{{User:Gerode/Visited}}
). Suppressing the checkboxes I've got planned, probably using the abuse filter (since there are
some
cases where I think it's okay and I'd rather a warn system over a complete disallow). //
shb
23:36, 12 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Is there a limit to how many countries the tracker can show? On
my map
, a bunch of random countries (the UK, France, Spain, Philippines, Laos) are not showing up even though they're selected.
Asamboi
talk
03:12, 13 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Usually it's a cache issue –
Special:Purge
should do the trick (they appear for me on your map). //
shb
03:39, 13 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
I would recommend adding a "refresh" button which functions like it's a purge, with a line telling user to click on the refresh button if the map doesn't update or have countries missing. We can't expect new users to know a special page.
OhanaUnited
Talk page
13:49, 15 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
I like this idea (have always thought about it). It also pairs well with
the world editing challenge
. But at first save Australia and New Zealand weren't shaded until I refresh the page.
OhanaUnited
Talk page
04:35, 13 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Echoing other comments, this is a nice little gadget, I tried it out the other day. An idea for how to develop it further would be an additional layer for countries the user would like to visit (maybe in green or red?). In addition to Singapore which was mentioned above, also the main part of Morocco does not want to show up. --
Ypsilon
talk
16:26, 13 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
So far I've fixed Thailand and HK on OSM. Singapore should be easy to fix, and I'll have to look into what's causing the issue for
Serbia
and
Morocco
. //
shb
21:51, 13 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
SG now also fixed. //
shb
02:05, 14 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Uganda is not shown. --
RolandUnger
talk
05:39, 14 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
It seems to show for me – you might need to clear your cache or give it a refresh. //
shb
05:45, 14 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Serbia's mapping to Kosovo. Let's not start the next world war shall we?
:)
OhanaUnited
Talk page
17:20, 14 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
tried
to fix it last night – ig a waiting game to see how long it'll take for this change to be mirrored here. :P //
shb
04:13, 15 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
And Morocco
. //
shb
12:32, 15 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
OhanaUnited
Both Serbia and Morocco now fixed. //
shb
02:43, 16 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
mexico, belize, panama, costa rica, Brazil, Argentina, Tunisia, Spain, Portugal (and probably a few more I have missed are not working for me). Is there a limit to how many you can add?
Jdlrobson
talk
03:10, 18 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
SHB2000
Andree.sk
I debugged this some more and I am seeing a call to
for every single country in the map. So for 195 countries, the browser tries to open 195 concurrent or sequential connections.
This architecture doesn't scale with our traffic and is currently triggering 429 requests which is likely why many of the countries are not showing for people. This also increases the risk that this feature could interfere with tools and other features on that site that may in future get rate limited.
Can we look to get this fixed sometime next week, given this risk here? I suggest we use a single request with a pipe-separated or comma-separated list of Q-ids if that's possible or at minimum batch the queries with setTimeout and caching using mw.storage for subsequent requests.
Jdlrobson
talk
19:35, 19 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
If it's possible to fix this, that would be appreciated (I'm not entirely sure how to make it such – I'm also a bit preoccupied this week and life irl has been quite hazy, but I'll give it a shot). //
shb
22:08, 19 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
I've tried batching
Module:VisitedMap
– does that perhaps solve some of the issues? //
shb
04:14, 20 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Yes! That seems to have done the trick! Thank you for the speedy fix!
Jdlrobson
talk
04:20, 20 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Awesome! Glad to know that works.
:) //
shb
04:24, 20 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
How to handle official websites that use automatic translations (e.g., DeepL)?
edit
Latest comment:
12 days ago
5 comments
4 people in discussion
While updating a listing in Stuttgart, Germany, I visited the city's official website. It is available in German and several other languages, but upon selecting the English version, a notification appeared stating that the content is automatically translated by DeepL.
In such cases, what is the preferred approach? Should I link to the original German version of the website, or is it better to provide the English URL, even if it relies on machine translation?
ShuaiXuesheng
talk
16:53, 10 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
I assume the translation link is easily found on the page, in which case I'd link the original. I wonder, now that AI translations are offered everywhere (including in Firefox, where it took some time for me to find how to disable it), what added value do direct such links from city pages offer? They might check that the translations are sensible, but more likely, at least for less common languages, they just rely on the tool. Perhaps the translation is even offered by the content management system and they just didn't disable it. –
LPfi
talk
21:50, 10 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
I think we should still link official pages in English when possible, but in these kinds of cases, I would tend to support linking the German-language page.
Ikan Kekek
talk
21:59, 10 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
From my experience, municipalities seem to do everything they can to cut costs. I often see job postings looking for someone to manage the entire media presence of a city with 500,000 people on a part-time basis of just 15 to 20 hours a week. It’s frankly unrealistic. And they are trying to cut corners in the exact same way when it comes to automated translations. Personally, I believe that if DeepL or similar tools are used, we should always link back to the original source language.
ShuaiXuesheng
talk
10:28, 11 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
I agree. The landing page of the municipality is the least like to change. The addresses of other language versions may change from time to time and make the link obsolete.
Ground Zero
talk
11:37, 11 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Edit History of Suburbs
edit
Latest comment:
10 days ago
4 comments
2 people in discussion
Hello everyone, would you please take a look at the edit history of
Suburbs
Here is the link:
To me, I feel like this article needs some improvements. Also, the edits made by single purpose accounts, appears to be weird as well, as these edits made, have been reverted multiple times already. Methinks, that if anyone here is interested on adding new information to this page, truthfully.
2026-69216-3
talk
02:54, 12 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Methinks you left something out of that sentence.
:-) But seriously, there are existing discussion threads on the
Talk:Suburbs
page that anyone including you can participate in.
Ikan Kekek
talk
06:23, 12 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Ikan Kekek
Yes, but did you check the edit history too on Suburbs?
2026-69216-3
talk
21:13, 13 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
I've been aware of that article since its inception. What point do you want to make?
Ikan Kekek
talk
21:39, 13 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Bug: Creating new listings with tool drops wikidata tag
edit
Latest comment:
10 days ago
3 comments
3 people in discussion
Replicable bug: if you create a new listing, and add something to the `wikidata` element, it gets dropped when you save. Is there an open bug for this? Or can somebody point me at the source code?
Asamboi
talk
03:15, 13 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
probably a question for @
Andyrom75
or @
Jdlrobson
at
Wikivoyage:Listing_editor
--
andree
07:14, 13 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Asamboi
, I'm not sure I got your point. In
Plovdiv
I've created a new listing as a test with Wikidata field duly filled. It worked (then I removed it). Could you please check it and let me know what I misunderstood? Thanks,
Andyrom75
talk
12:55, 13 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Obsolete Main Page proposal
edit
Latest comment:
9 days ago
3 comments
2 people in discussion
I notice an obsolete "Main Page" proposal in mainspace:
Main Page/Main Page New Mobile
. I think it's intended to be a "mobile-friendly" version of our Main Page, and was designed at the time when smartphones were too small. Since it's totally redundant to our existing mobile-optimized Main Page, I suggest it to be moved out of mainspace as a "historical" page. However, I don't rule out the possibility of its components be incorporated into our existing mobile version.
Sbb1413
(he) (
talk
contribs
18:06, 13 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
It's clearly a sandbox, I'll move it under the main page in a while (jointly with what links there).
Andyrom75
talk
07:34, 14 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Done. --
Andyrom75
talk
07:42, 14 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Main Page sandboxes
edit
Latest comment:
9 days ago
3 comments
3 people in discussion
I see there are there Main Page sandboxes:
Main Page/Sandbox
Main Page/sandbox2
, and
Main Page/sandbox3
. However, I think it's too many, and I suggest to keep only one (
Main Page/Sandbox
).
Sbb1413
(he) (
talk
contribs
18:10, 13 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Occasionally it may be useful to have more than one sandbox if alternatives are being offered for discussion. It looks like boxes 2 and 3 were used for discussions in
Template talk:Bottomboxes
and
Wikivoyage talk:Travellers' pub
, so I don't see any great need to clear them away.
AlasdairW
talk
20:48, 13 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
I agree with Alasdair.
WhatamIdoing
talk
16:28, 14 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
FYI: Guide.world collection of travel guides
edit
Latest comment:
9 days ago
3 comments
3 people in discussion
Justin (
ko
vf
19:31, 14 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Odd that it mentions Wikipedia but not Wikivoyage…
HyperAnd
talk
20:48, 14 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
It links to guides by one author 21 times, and another gets 7 links. I wouldn't regard it as a neutral list, and it may deliberately avoid listing worldwide guides - the major commercial guides also don't get a mention.
AlasdairW
talk
22:42, 14 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
FYI: I Found It: The Best Free Restaurant Bread in America
edit
Latest comment:
9 days ago
1 comment
1 person in discussion
Justin (
ko
vf
19:39, 14 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Hotels in space
edit
Latest comment:
6 days ago
4 comments
3 people in discussion
If space tourism is on the cusp of being a real thing, then it can't be long until hotels in space become a thing too. Here's an article that gives it some thought:
Mrkstvns
talk
18:29, 15 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
If space hotels ever become a thing, they would get listed in the "Sleep" section of our
space
article. It should note which spacecraft serve a given hotel.
Sbb1413
(he) (
talk
contribs
04:06, 16 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Plus continued vigilance against the pranksters who’ll try to populate space with non-existent pizzerias, as they do with desolate regions on Earth. Weary travellers who’ve been disappointed 2 or 3 times may lose confidence in WV info and fail to locate the genuine pizzerias out there.
Grahamsands
talk
12:02, 17 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
One way to tackle this creep of space pizzerias is to note which spacecraft serves the pizzeria if it's separate from a hotel. If no spacecraft serves it, it would get removed.
Sbb1413
(he) (
talk
contribs
12:13, 17 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
New Nigeria Expedition?
edit
Latest comment:
3 days ago
16 comments
5 people in discussion
There seems to be an influx of new Nigeria articles. Is this related to any known event, or another event in violation of the
event organizer
policy? //
shb
12:52, 17 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
It looks like 21 new articles were posted.
WhatamIdoing
talk
16:40, 17 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
User:Bigcee007
, @
User:Viva33
, @
Ngozi scholar Okafor
, @
User:Celetex
, @
User:Senator Choko
, @
User:OGA Goody
, @
User:Adakaibe
(and please read
WV:Naming conventions#Disambiguation
, which is not done in the same style on this site as on Wikipedia), @
User:Akwugo
, @
User:Chikwas
, @
User:IfyClassique
, @
User:Bigkotech
, @
User:Nneka Ibeanu
, @
User:Ennydavids
: Can you all tell us what is going on and link the organizing page for us? Who trained you in how to edit on Wikivoyage? Thanks.
Ikan Kekek
talk
23:39, 17 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
...and
Goodymeraj
who posted a block appeal on behalf of someone else on my talk page. //
shb
05:42, 18 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Good morning sir. I posted the appeal. We are currently on a project of visibilizing some Nigerian communities on Wikivoyage. The users you mentioned and tagged above are part of the exercise. Bigcee007 is one of them. That's why I'm appealing on his behalf. Thank you so much
Goodymeraj
talk
05:52, 18 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Goodymeraj
, please answer the questions we've asked you. Also, importantly, have you read
Wikivoyage:Welcome, event organizers
? If not, read it right away!
Ikan Kekek
talk
05:54, 18 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Please which other questions did you ask that I've not answered. And yes, I read the Wikivoyage:Welcome, event organizers
Goodymeraj
talk
05:58, 18 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
And when did you inform us about this event prior to it happening and solicit our advice and collaboration? Read and answer the questions in this thread. I see no reason to repost them. They are in the first and third posts in this thread.
Ikan Kekek
talk
06:53, 18 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Goodymeraj
...so it was you behind this expedition? What do you mean you've read the event organizers policy, but then failed to do
every
single step listed on that page? //
shb
12:33, 18 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
We have to decide what to do about this; by all appearances, it's exactly what the event organizers policy is supposed to prevent, and everyone involved is so far evading all our questions. Should we be asking right now whether all of the edits should be reverted and all the participants should be blocked, or is the more salient question whether the organizer should be banned? Our policy is either in force or it's a dead letter, so it's important for us to figure out the best course of action and take it.
Ikan Kekek
talk
15:31, 18 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Can everyone please calm down a bit? I can see why Ikan asks the questions above, but I definitely do not think we should answer yes to either of them. Both the organiser & the participants appear to be acting in good faith, so heavy-handed measures should be avoided if possible.
A lot of our coverage of Africa is quite weak & we definitely want contributions from new users with local knowledge. Yes, the inevitable new user blunders are irritating, but nothing that cannot be dealt with.
Pashley
talk
16:11, 18 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
It's the eternal paradox of the new editors: Newbies are 'expensive', but the community will die without them.
As we discussed months ago at
Wikivoyage talk:Welcome, event organizers#A draft of a substitute for the text on this page
I'm not convinced that banning organizers is the right choice, especially on a "first offense", when we can't know whether they read the page
before
the event.
I do think these articles need improving. Picking one at random,
Igbo-Ukwu
is a site of archaeological significance. The population is around 75,000, so it's the kind of place we probably ought to have an article on. It would be nice to have information added to this article (e.g., hotels, restaurants,
several festivals
), but I'm not sad that we have five sentences instead of zero.
WhatamIdoing
talk
17:15, 18 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
People acting in good faith would answer our questions. The silence in reply to them is deafening. We need answers ASAP.
Ikan Kekek
talk
21:02, 18 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Ikan Kekek
I'd personally ban the organizer for both failing to adhere to the event organizer policy, and also blatantly lying about having read the page. Maybe I'd give a 24–48-hour grace period (from the time of your message), because any longer and that just increases the workload for everyone else trying to clean their mess. //
shb
21:21, 18 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
And also for playing dumb ("Please which other questions did you ask that I've not answered") and refusing to answer any of the questions at the top of the thread.
Ikan Kekek
talk
21:28, 18 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
You're assuming there actually was "an" organizer (possible, but not certain) and that the group didn't get together for fun and decide at the last minute to edit Wikivoyage instead of Wikipedia. If so, I'm sure they won't make that mistake again, after this
WV:FUN
reaction. Consider:
"Have you read
Wikivoyage:Welcome, event organizers
? If not, read it right away!"
And then when the person did read it, you react like they should have traveled back in time to implement it retroactively:
"What do you mean you've read the event organizers policy, but then failed to do
every
single step listed on that page?"
I think this is the most important question that's been asked so far:
Can everyone please calm down a bit?
WhatamIdoing
talk
17:47, 20 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Sign language phrasebooks
edit
Latest comment:
4 days ago
7 comments
4 people in discussion
Would it be appropriate to make sign language phrasebooks? Such languages are actually in use, especially in places that have concentrated deaf communities, unlike say, Latin.
HyperAnd
talk
21:10, 17 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Absolutely! How would you do it?
Ikan Kekek
talk
23:40, 17 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Now that's the tricky part. Most of the notation used to write sign languages aren't very readable to an average traveller. We could simply just use video, but video isn't very editable for a wiki, so it should be supplemented with written notation if possible. The most promising notation I see are
Wiktionary's notation
and
w:SignWriting
. Wiktionary's notation doesn't use hard-to-understand symbols, but it's non-visual. SignWriting is very visual, but we need to enable a gadget to render it because most devices can't handle 2D arrangement of text. The gadget is
mw:Extension:SignWriting MediaWiki Plugin
, but unfortunately it's largely unmaintained. Here's the gadget implemented on
ASL Wikipedia in the incubator
if you want to see how it looks (though it doesn't render on the mobile skin).
HyperAnd
talk
00:37, 18 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
My feeling is, if it can be useful to travelers, do it. I think video and pictures are most useful. I couldn't make head or tails of the ASL symbols, but is it important for travelers to know them?
Ikan Kekek
talk
03:59, 18 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
My take: for most travelers, probs not – but I can see these phrasebooks being useful in the odd situation and I don't see an issue with sign language phrasebooks if someone is willing to create them and make such phrasebook useful. //
shb
08:05, 18 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Well, many deaf and hard of hearing people read and edit websites, and there are various different sign languages, so I think sign language "phrasebooks" would be very useful to that segment of our readership and also people with keen hearing who want to communicate with them. The difficulty, if anything, is that these would be primarily video or picture phrasebooks, but the concept is the same and the need is clear.
Ikan Kekek
talk
08:18, 18 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
I think sign language phrasebooks would be welcome, but I do see practical difficulties. I understand that there are several English based sign languages: American Sign Language, British Sign Language, New Zealand Sign Language etc which may be difficult for sign users. The phrasebook would need to be illustrated with photos (or drawings) unless we change
Wikivoyage:Image policy
to allow short videos in this exceptional case. I don't think wiki editing of a video is an issue if videos are kept short (less than 10 seconds) so editing is done by uploading a replacement, as with photos.
AlasdairW
talk
21:07, 19 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
New user problems
edit
Latest comment:
3 days ago
3 comments
3 people in discussion
The project certainly needs new users, especially in areas where our coverage is weak. On the other hand, new users often do various problematic things because they naturally are not familiar with local policies & conventions.
Overall, I think the old hands here do a reasonable job of correcting problems, welcoming people & pointing out issues, though there are times when some of the regulars need a reminder of
Wikivoyage:Keep Wikivoyage fun
and
don't bite the newbies
. I also think most new users do quite well at learning & adapting.
Are there ways we could improve this? We point new users to
Wikivoyage:Tips for new contributors
; does that need improvements (
Wikivoyage_talk:Tips_for_new_contributors#Reorganize
)? What about
Template:Welcome
? In particular, should the template text be shortened, deleting things that duplicate parts of the Tips page?
There are things we could do in software, but should we? Make the signup software display a link to Tips? Have the software that creates user pages automatically add the template? Have a bot that looks for empty "User talk:" pages & drops the template on them?
Pashley
talk
11:49, 20 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Would you like to propose any specific edits?
Ikan Kekek
talk
12:27, 20 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
About making
Special:CreateAccount
display a link to Tips: How many of our first-time editors are creating a new account here? I believe that many of our contributors already have accounts from Wikipedia or Commons.
WhatamIdoing
talk
18:39, 20 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Summer of Wikivoyage in Albania and Kosovo 2026
edit
Latest comment:
2 days ago
2 comments
2 people in discussion
Hi everyone,
just a quick note to share that the
Wikimedians of Albanian Language User Group
will be organizing the Summer of Wikivoyage Edit-a-thon 2026 on May 8–9. This year, we are focusing on
Kukës
, Albania, and other travel destinations in Albania and Kosovo in English language.
There will be an offline event, and everyone is also welcome to join online on Saturday from 10:00–17:00 (GMT+2) on
here
. See you there! Thank you!
Vyolltsa
talk
15:21, 21 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Awesome, and thanks for the notice! I look forward to working with the group. The edit-a-thons on Albania and Kosovo are always done well.
Ikan Kekek
talk
17:46, 21 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Wiki Loves Bangla 2026 has started, Join Now!
edit
Latest comment:
2 days ago
3 comments
3 people in discussion
Hello,
We are excited to announce that
Wiki Loves Bangla 2026
has started! This year’s theme focuses on
Bengal festivals
, inviting participants to capture and share images and videos of the diverse cultural celebrations across Bengal.
Wiki Loves Bangla
is an international photography contest on Wikimedia Commons aimed at documenting Bengali culture and heritage worldwide. It is organised annually as part of the
Bangla Culture and Heritage Collation Program
, with a dedicated theme each year.
How You Can Participate
, it's easy and simple, and every upload contributes to the world's largest free knowledge repository:
Winning image from Wiki Loves Bangla 2025.
Attribution:
Ashraf747
CC BY-SA 4.0
Capture
: Take photos or videos of Bengal festivals.
Upload
: Share your files to Wikimedia Commons between
14 April and 15 May 2026
Win
: A total of
USD 1,100
in prizes.
Ready to get started?
Click here to upload your media
, or visit the
for full details.
Your contributions help document and preserve Bengal’s rich cultural heritage for the world.
For any questions, email us or join our
Telegram group
Warm regards,
Wiki Loves Bangla Team
#WikiLovesBangla
~ Moheen
(keep talking)
20:50, 21 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
I hope the event is a smashing success!
Ikan Kekek
talk
03:36, 22 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Seconded, would be even more amazing if some of those photos submitted can be used in some of our articles here. Either way, all the best,
Moheen
. //
shb
04:52, 22 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Abolishing the see, do, eat and drink sections of region articles
edit
Latest comment:
8 hours ago
14 comments
7 people in discussion
2,477
– that's the number of outline region articles there are at present. Out of
3,605
. That puts the number of outline region articles at about 68%, as of writing this message. A majority of articles you'll stumble across will have no content in either the see, do, eat and drink sections, and it's very explainable: writing content in most region articles is a fairly time-consuming exercise whilst simultaneously also being one of the least read sections. In most cases, we want people to focus more on the understand, get in and get around sections for region articles rather than things to see or do, let alone eat/drink (which should really be mostly covered by individual city/park articles).
My solution is rather simple: remove the see, do, eat and drink sections as mandatory headings for outline and usable articles (but they should be a requirement for guide and star articles) so the site can have a bit of a more polished look. This site has had over 20 years to prove that these sections have been useful, and they haven't. I'm aware this is a bit different to all our other categories of articles, but regions are a bit of a unique case in that a) we don't list individual listings on region pages and b) the see, do, eat and drink sections provide so little value in a majority of cases.
//
shb
06:10, 23 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
I thought eat, drink and sleep were already optional for region articles. See and do shouldn't be optional.
Ikan Kekek
talk
06:33, 23 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Sleep is, but not eat/drink per
Wikivoyage:Region article template
. //
shb
06:38, 23 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Let's make eat and drink optional, but I disagree with making see and do optional. There needs to be a summary of things or at least types of things to see and do in a region for it to be really usable.
Ikan Kekek
talk
07:11, 23 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
That's fair I suppose –
I don't feel too strongly about see/do so I'm fine with just eat/drink if that's what we all want. //
shb
07:12, 23 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
We might want to have a discussion on the
Wikivoyage talk:Region article template
page to make it official, don't you think?
Ikan Kekek
talk
07:23, 23 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
All that this can achieve is to make the metrics look a bit better, by lowering the quality threshold for a regional page to be considered "usable" – a bar that is already set low. Scrappy uninformative pages will remain scrappy and uninformative, not worth reading.
“Overhang” is the term I use for regional pages that remain outline even though their constituent pages are of good standard. My guess is that these are few, do we have any numbers about that? If (as seems likely) the outline regions mostly have outline cities, parks etc then it’s sensible to put the effort into the latter.
Grahamsands
talk
17:50, 23 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Probably should've started the discussion there, but I think for such a major high-profile change I'd prefer the pub as the venue of discussion over
Wikivoyage talk:Region article template
. //
shb
22:29, 23 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
I wonder how often we have a regional article without usable articles below it. I have occasionally added attractions to a regional article because there was no 'city' article to stick it in.
WhatamIdoing
talk
20:52, 23 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Personally I think that's fine tbh – though I suppose in those cases that's where the question of whether a rural area article is more favorable arises. //
shb
22:38, 23 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Agree with whoever said make it optional. I agree that most of the time they would be unnecessary but there are enough corner cases.
Pur
ple
back
pack
89
21:06, 23 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
I agree that region articles should have See and Do, and we should work towards filling those in, rather than removing them. Eat and Drink are useful, and exist in some region articles, but it does seem unlikely that we will be able to expand those any time soon. They should be optional, and removed if empty. I don't think Sleep should be in region articles at all.
Ground Zero
talk
21:19, 23 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Although
here
is an example of a useful Sleep section in a region article.
Ground Zero
talk
21:33, 23 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Regions should have See and Do, and can usefully have Buy, Eat, Drink or Sleep. Unfortunately you usually need to know a region well to provide complete content in any of these sections.
AlasdairW
talk
22:03, 23 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Main Page
blue marble map broken on mobile when logged out
edit
Latest comment:
2 hours ago
4 comments
2 people in discussion
logged in view
logged out view
Any particular reason this is happening? This is what I see on my screen, when logged in and logged out. //
shb
00:55, 24 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
(cc
Wauteurz
Jdlrobson
Andyrom75
) //
shb
00:59, 24 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
You seem to have "Enable responsive mode" disabled in preferences for your logged in account. It is broken for logged in users too.
This is how it's always looked, and because the main page lacks a responsive design, it remains a suboptimal experience for the majority of Wikivoyage readers who visit the site (most of our traffic is mobile, and most users use responsive websites).
There are a few specific areas where the current layout creates friction for our readers:
Navigation & Accessibility: The use of an imagemap for country discovery is a legacy approach that isn’t intuitive for modern users. It’s also quite difficult for screen readers to navigate.
Visual Hierarchy: Large gaps between content blocks and the heavy visual weight given to family logos seem to prioritize other projects over our own content.
Mobile Formatting: Sections like "Get involved" and "Discover" become cramped on smaller screens, often forcing text into single-word columns.
The Carousel: The current implementation has functional issues on mobile and lacks the accessible labels necessary for screen readers and neurodivergent users.
Would you be interested in starting a Mobile Main Page Redesign Expedition? I would suggest rebuilding this from scratch. We could focus on creating a truly responsive, accessible entry point for the site that meets modern web standards.
Jdlrobson
talk
04:25, 24 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
Interesting, I only noticed now which is why I brought it up (since I rarely view Wikivoyage logged out). But sure, I'm definitely interested in it (I should have a bit more time upcoming to rebuild something from scratch for mobile in the upcoming weeks). //
shb
04:42, 24 April 2026 (UTC)
Reply
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